CIMM#101: Briefing on the Temporary Immigration Measures Initiated in Response to Ongoing Conflicts in Sudan and Gaza

We'll come back. Thank you.

I'll go to MP Kwan for six minutes.

Thank you.

I'm going to ask a few more questions on Gaza, and then I'm going to move on to Sudan.

Could the minister advise us of the number of people who have crossed to Egypt for Canada, and who have managed to cross from January until now? In the U.S., we know there are at least 435. In Italy, there are 317. In Australia, there are 300. What's the number for Canada?

The number of individuals who have departed Gaza independently is at about 1,214. As for the assisted departures, which I think you were alluding to, since the beginning, it's 2,588. Again, though, you'd have to ask me a more precise question.

Okay. I'm going to pause this question then.

What work is being done to look at other borders and options for people to cross outside of Rafah?

Currently, we continue to advocate for a managed exit at any border that is available, but as you know, there are none that are open at this time. This is a continued diplomatic effort as part of the advocacy for a ceasefire and access to humanitarian aid.

Perhaps we can get something in writing, or perhaps when the officials are up, we can get a more detailed answer than, “Hey, we're trying, but nothing is happening.”

There are people in Egypt who managed to cross the border on their own, but they're stuck. Their applications have not been processed, so no TRVs have been issued, and this is supposed to be a first in, first out process.

Why have these people not been issued TRVs? How many people are stuck?

I can't tell you that or presume that's an accurate statement. People have to go through the eligibility in the program. If they have crossed over from Gaza into Egypt, they are safe, thank heavens. They are eligible for the program. We are doing our utmost to get them to Canada.

Based on the survey of families, we have 914 applications that are in Egypt. Of those, 121 got visas, and they've been there for a very long time. The rest of them are just stuck in the system.

I'm going to come back to that with the officials later.

On Sudan, what we know is that the quota of 3,250 has now been reached. How many of those have been issued visas?

That work is still ongoing at this time, so I don't believe any in the context of this program.

Okay. The conflict has been occurring since last year, and it took the government eight months to announce this program. To date, we're expecting, based on the answers, it will be almost two years before anybody can get to safety. What is the holdup?

The bells are ringing. Do we have unanimous consent to carry on with the meeting?

Normally, my colleague doesn't want to do that, but we would be willing to let the NDP finish their round and then suspend the meeting.

I have stopped the clock.

I need to know if I have unanimous consent to carry on with the meeting or if we will stop the meeting.

Until the end of the—

I cannot have—

Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe has a point of order.

Okay. I will carry on with Madam Kwan.

Madam Kwan, you have three minutes left.

There was a question for me. Do you want me to take it?

Yes. How many visas have been issued? I think you said none.

Let's not presume that nothing has happened. We have evacuated 846 people.

Under other programs, we have about 4,200 people who are here, but under this program, which was launched earlier this year, the process is still ongoing. The intake cap has been recently achieved, as of May 6, so no visas been issued in this context.

The issue here is why it is taking so long. Is it a problem with issuing visas and getting people to safety because of staffing resources, or is it because of the immigration level numbers that are actually limiting the ability for the government to move people to safety in a much more expeditious way?

In this case, it certainly isn't the immigration level numbers.

Then what's the problem?

We launched the program a few months ago. It is at the intake cap as of May 6, and we continue the security processing and the landing of people, which was always planned to be around early 2025. We are moving that up to 2024. We're working as hard as we can.

Okay. Then it will be almost two years before people get to safety. It took the government eight months to actually announce the program back in December and then another two months to actually move forward with the application process.

With the 3,250 cap, is that to do with the immigration levels plan?

Again, let's not presume that no work has been done in the interim. This is a family reunification program of people from different locations who have been affected by this devastating reality.

The number we have set is one that we do to manage our ability to properly process people within the programs, and all of these programs, with very few exceptions, have caps.

Well, the immigration levels plan for 2024 for H and C is 13,750; for 2025, 8,000; and for 2026, 8,000. You can see how tight those numbers are.

If the minister says it has nothing to do with the immigration levels plan, can he provide the committee with a list of all the countries that are supposed to fit into these tight numbers that are needing special immigration measures or H and C applications to get to safety? As well, what are the allocations for those countries?

To the extent that we have them, I'm sure we could provide a rough estimate of what will be comprised in those. As you know, there are many events that happen around the world, and we have to open our arms to people who are fleeing war and devastation. We do that, and we will continue to do that. Often that does put pressure on some of these things we try to predict years before but that don't necessarily turn out to be true. Take, for example, the situation in Ukraine.

Maybe we can get the breakdown of those numbers. How many are targeted for Ukraine? How many are targeted for the Americas with the government's special deal, the secret deal, for the safe third country agreement, for Sudan, for Hong Kong, for Gaza, etc.? Can we get those numbers, please?

I just take issue with the 15,000 in the Americas program. It's far from secret. It's quite open.

It was negotiated in secret.

Well, we don't negotiate things with Biden in front of a press gallery, that's for sure. However, we certainly talk to them and come up with a plan to make sure there's a safe way to migrate through the Americas, which, as you know, is exceedingly dangerous, especially through the Darien Gap.

The time is up, Madam Kwan, so I will—

He just rambled on.

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1:45 p.m.

 

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

Thank you, Mr. Morrice. Your time is up.

We'll go to Madam Kwan.

Madam Kwan, please go ahead for four minutes.

 

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

On the issue of differential treatment, the government could have brought in a temporary program for Sudanese to get to safety, and then, as they are doing for the Ukrainians, provide a PR program subsequently. The government could have done that, but they chose not to. It's going to take at least two years now for people to get to safety.

Now, I think the block here is on the immigration levels plan numbers. The deputy minister just said that out of the 3,250 special immigration measures for Sudanese, we'll be expecting 6,000 to 8,000 people from those applications.

Would that be coming out of 2024 immigration levels plan numbers or is that going to be coming out of the 2025 planned immigration levels for the H and C category?

 

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

Could the officials provide the committee the list of countries of PR applications under the H and C program that have been approved so that we can see how many of the spaces are allotted for 2024, which is 13,750, and how many they expect for 2025, for which the allotted space is 8,000?

If you look at the numbers accordingly, 6,000 to 8,000 coming out of the 3,250 applications for 2025, let's say not all of them; let's just say even 5,000. That's the bulk of the numbers. You then have only 300 left. That's supposed to cover Ukraine; that's supposed to cover Gaza and that's supposed to cover Hong Kong. It's supposed to cover all the other categories, including protected persons. How is the government going to make those numbers work? Is that the real reason there is such a delay?

 

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

I'd love to hear from the deputy minister and, if we don't have time, perhaps have him submit to the committee what other streams they are going to raid to make these numbers work. Unless the government actually increases the immigration levels numbers, the numbers are not going to add up, so which stream are they going to raid?

 

Dr. Harpreet S. Kochhar
Deputy Minister, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

 

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

On the yearly renewal, we're already talking about 2024-25, so now we're talking about 2026 and beyond. The numbers just don't add up. In any event, I'll wait for the breakdown so that we can see, because this has implications not just for the Sudanese community but for all the other communities that are in desperate need of the PR numbers and the processing delay that is jammed up in the system.

I want to just touch on the issue of finances and financial barriers. If the deputy can also provide the exact breakdown of why some communities have had their fees waived and others have not, we have a fulsome comparison using Ukraine as the gold standard and then comparing that to all the other communities that are in need of support.

 

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

The time is up, Deputy Minister.

Do you want to respond?

 

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

The time is up. We agreed on four minutes each. I'm going to adjourn the meeting on behalf of the committee members.

 

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

Mr. Chair, before you adjourn, I have a point of order.

 

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

Yes, but let me thank the officials first. I want to thank the officials.

 

Greg McLean Calgary Centre, AB
Conservative

Chair, we have 10 minutes. We can still have—

 

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

It's agreed.

On behalf of the committee members, I want to thank the deputy minister, assistant deputy minister and the director for coming here and sharing their time with us.

I also want to thank the interpreters, the support staff and of course the public that has come to this meeting.

With that, I will let the officials leave.

I have two points of order. One I think I've already dealt with.

Madam Kwan.

 

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

Mr. Chair, I just want to make sure that the committee would be able to get the information that was requested of the minister . He was not able to provide the data for the committee members. I want to be clear that this is not missed. I asked the minister for the numbers of TRV applications that are in the system for those in Egypt—this is related to Gaza—and to indicate if they are part of the SIM, the special immigration measure, and whether or not they issue a code, and of those, how many TRVs have been issued to them.

The minister said that he actually didn't know. I said that I was going to bring that to officials, so I want to make sure that the officials will provide that data to us as well.

 

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

Thank you.

Madam Kayabaga.

 

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https://openparliament.ca/committees/immigration/44-1/101/?singlepage=1