Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Nov. 25th, 2022
Evidence of meeting #44 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session.
Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I want to reiterate that point. The committee passed two motions. One was to invite the minister to come for the supplementary estimates and the other was to invite the minister separately for the levels plan. There are two separate invitations.
I appreciate that he can come and talk to things of all manner, which I'm sure committee members will appreciate. However, that said, there are two separate invites. We should make sure that he understands that and that the clerk extends an additional invite for the levels plan.
The Chair Salma Zahid
Liberal
Thank you.
We'll have Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe and then Ms. Lalonde.
I'm sorry. I can't see everyone. I'm relying on the information I'm getting from the clerk.
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Bloc
Thank you, Madam Chair, but Ms. Kwan just raised the point I was going to make so I don't need to comment.
Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
I also want to say thank you to all of the departments for the work they are doing for our country.
With respect to the safe third country agreement, one issue, of course, is that the numbers will ebb and flow with the arrivals of people wanting to cross into Canada irregularly. I wonder if after this meeting the IRB could provide the committee with the data on the actual numbers over the years. If we could get the numbers perhaps prior to the safe third country agreement and then since that time to current, we could see the fluctuation that's occurred within the borders. Is it possible to get the numbers for the 10 years prior to the safe third country agreement?
Richard Wex
Chairperson and Chief Executive Officer, Immigration and Refugee BoardThrough the chair, thank you for the question.
The board will undertake to do what it can for the member's request. I just want to make sure I understand the question. Is it with respect to the numbers currently identified as ineligible? I'm just trying to make sure I understand the question.
Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP
Sorry. It's about the numbers of people who've arrived at the border crossing irregularly.
Richard Wex
Chairperson and Chief Executive Officer, Immigration and Refugee Board
We have those numbers, yes. I can provide them to you now or another time.
Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP
Perhaps you can provide the numbers to us after the committee meeting.
Richard Wex
Chairperson and Chief Executive Officer, Immigration and Refugee BoardAbsolutely. In terms of numbers that have come to the IRB or are referred to the IRB that are irregular, we can provide those numbers to you. Since 2017 it's 72,500.
Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP
Thank you. I'd like to have the breakdown year by year.
Could you also provide information, if you have that information, on the demographics of the people coming across the border?
Richard Wex
Chairperson and Chief Executive Officer, Immigration and Refugee BoardWe'll provide what we can. Thank you.
Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP
Thank you.
My next question is for the CBSA/
With respect to processing, one issue that was brought to our attention by a witness was about the asylum seeker getting their documentation, what they call the “brown paper” document. Because of the influx of numbers, I understand that there is pressure on the CBSA in terms of staffing. Now there's a practice of providing an “entry for further examination” document.
Can you advise the committee on how long it's taking for people to get the brown paper document so that they can move on to the next phase of their asylum claim?
Aaron McCrorie
Vice-President, Intelligence and Enforcement, Canada Border Services AgencyThank you, Madam Chair.
Maybe I'll take this opportunity to reiterate that our processes are in place regardless of whether the STCA is there or not. At Roxham Road, in an effort to deal with volumes, initially we were processing in two parts. We did an initial assessment upon arrival, and then we adjourned the claim for a later date to be finalized in an eligibility interview at the urban processing centre.
As a result of that, what we've seen with the volumes...and we're doing that because it takes four to six hours to do a claim in person. We've seen that eligibility backlog increase due to this two-step process where it's now taking up to 18 months for somebody to get that eligibility interview and to get their documentation.
To address that, we've done a couple of things. One, we've introduced, as I alluded to, what we call our one-step process, where low-risk people and people with full documentation are fully assessed upon arrival. They're allowed to leave. They're given the documentation they require so that they have rights to employment and they have rights to social and medical care. They have to complete their paperwork on our online portal within 45 days. The effect of that is to reduce the growth of the eligibility backlog.
The other innovation we put in place is the use of this digital portal. I've said it takes up to 18 months. That's a worst-case scenario. If individuals provide their information via our online portal, which is more user-friendly, more reliable, and more accurate, they can get an interview within 90 days. That would then close their eligibility claim and they'd move forward in the system.
Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP
I ask this question because currently...actually just this week we had a witness who works with The Refugee Centre advising us that people are waiting for a prolonged period. They are not actually getting their brown paper document.
Since when has this expedited process that you mention been in place?
Aaron McCrorie
Vice-President, Intelligence and Enforcement, Canada Border Services AgencyWe launched on November 1 and we're already seeing immediate benefits from that. The portal has been in place for a couple of months and again we're seeing immediate benefits there.
The portal is available to anybody in that up-to-18-month waiting list. The benefit of the portal, from our point of view, is that it's more user-friendly, it's plain language, it's more accurate and it's quicker.
Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP
I'm sorry. I'm limited on time.
Maybe you can provide the committee this data as well: How many asylum seekers are in what stages of the wait period? If you can provide that information to us for Roxham Road, that would be appreciated.
With respect to your comment, I appreciate that as well. If people went through the official ports of entry, it would reduce the dangers people encounter on the journey to try to get to Canada to seek asylum and safety. That is an important point to note.
From that perspective, would it also create better organization in terms of the management of the current situation for CBSA, and for the RCMP for that matter?
My question is for the RCMP and for CBSA.
Aaron McCrorie
Vice-President, Intelligence and Enforcement, Canada Border Services AgencyArriving through the port of entry—
The Chair Salma Zahid
Liberal
I'm sorry for interrupting, Ms. Kwan. The time is up.
We will now proceed to our second round. Based on the time, we will have two and a half minutes for Mr. Maguire and then Ms. Lalonde, and then one and a half minutes each for Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe and Ms. Kwan. Then we will end this panel.
We will go to Mr. Maguire.
You will have two and a half minutes.
Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP
Thank you.
To build on that, prior to the safe third country agreement, people crossed over at the regular border crossings. Is that right?
This is for Mr. Wex.
Richard Wex
Chairperson and Chief Executive Officer, Immigration and Refugee BoardYes. That's definitely my understanding, in the vast majority of cases.
Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP
Thank you.
With respect to the IRB's projections and the numbers you anticipate coming in.... To process the IRB asylum applications, what sort of funding do you project you will require in order to process them in a way that will not create the extended delays and backlog that we previously had?
Richard Wex
Chairperson and Chief Executive Officer, Immigration and Refugee BoardRight now, as you're aware, we're funded most recently to 50,000 claims per year. We're expecting about 75,000 claims to come in this year. That's an additional 25,000, which will add six months to our processing times.
For every 10,000 that there's a difference between our intake and our processing capacity, it will cost the IRB about $45 million or $50 million per year. That's basically our funding formula. The math can be done.
Right now, there is a delta of more than 10,000.
Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP
Thank you very much.
When I was first elected back in 2015, there was a huge backlog in the IRB. There were a whole bunch of problems, including the lack of resources in a financial sense, as well as in staffing levels at the IRB. The IRB went through years of hiring people only on a part-time basis.
Has that now ended? Has the IRB hired people on a full-time basis and on a permanent basis to address the processing of applicants?
Richard Wex
Chairperson and Chief Executive Officer, Immigration and Refugee Board
Thank you very much for the question.
With the monies received in budget 2022, we will be able to make permanent about 1,000 FTEs at the IRB who were previously funded by temporary funds through budgets 2018 to 2020.
We are going through the stabilization exercise now. For the past few years, over 50% of our organization has been temporary. The government investments now will allow us to stabilize the organization, which is very important for recruitment, retention, morale and productivity.
2:40 p.m.
Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP
Thank you very much, Madam Chair, and thank you to all of the witnesses for their presentations.
I'd like to continue with Mr. Handfield on this line of questioning.
With respect to the safe third country agreement, some would argue that the United States is a safe country and, therefore, the people who are trying to get to safety here in Canada are asylum shopping.
I wonder what your response is to that. What is the current state in the United States at the moment for asylum seekers?
Stéphane Handfield
Lawyer, Handfield et Associés, Avocats, As an IndividualI think it's a mistake to compare the two asylum systems. The situation in the United States is quite different from that in Canada. Canada is much more open and has much more flexible criteria for recognizing that a person is a refugee. Let me give you some examples.
First, sexual orientation. A person seeking asylum in the United States on the basis of sexual orientation could not be recognized as a refugee by the U.S. immigration court. Conversely, in Canada, membership in what's called a particular social group is grounds for recognition as a refugee.
Then there's the fact that a person fears certain crime groups in their country of origin. That is not a recognized ground in the United States, whereas it is in Canada. Those are obviously major differences.
The two systems also have different views on the detention of migrants. In Canada, this is the exception: migrants are detained in purpose-built immigration detention centres that house women, children and families. In the United States, migrants seeking asylum are instead held in common law prisons, alongside criminals, sometimes even hardened criminals like murderers.
The two systems are completely different. In fact, that's why the Federal Court struck down the agreement in 2020. The system was seen as different, and, contrary to popular belief, the United States was not a safe third country for people who feared persecution if they were to return to their home country.
Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP
Thank you very much for that.
I'd like to turn to the representative from MOSAIC, Ms. Nezakat.
There is a lot of focus on Roxham Road, of course, because of the volume of people crossing over irregularly. In British Columbia, we also have numbers.
Do you have any sense of what the impact is on people crossing over irregularly at the British Columbia border?
Marzieh Nezakat
Manager, Refugee Settlement and Integration Program, Multilingual Orientation Service Association for Immigrant CommunitiesThank you so much for asking that.
As I mentioned a little bit earlier, when they cross the border irregularly and they are not intercepted, they need to claim inland. When they claim inland, the whole process of the refugee claim is way more difficult and longer because of the backlog we see with legal aid. It would take, at times, one or two months for a refugee claimant to be able to start working with their lawyers to put their claim in. Then it will take some time to receive income assistance and work permits are delayed for up to 18 months or more.
During this time they do not really have any other financial resources and the stress of not having legal status, of not receiving results on their eligibility interview and from the risk of being denied and found ineligible after more than a year of being in the country puts a lot of pressure on refugee claimants. We receive refugee claimants every week in need of counselling services and one-on-one sessions for the trauma they are going through. They are stressed out.
We're seeing families being separated because they cannot take the pressure any longer because of the uncertainty. It has a toll on these refugee claimants.
Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP
Thank you.
Does MOSAIC receive any federal funding to provide support to asylum seekers?
Marzieh Nezakat
Manager, Refugee Settlement and Integration Program, Multilingual Orientation Service Association for Immigrant CommunitiesThat's a very good question.
In the province of British Columbia, all of the services directed to refugee claimants are only provincially funded.
There is only one federally funded program, which is called Reaching Home by IRCC. It is only for some of the transitional houses. We do not have many transitional houses for refugee claimants in B.C. That is a small program, so I would say that nearly all the funding is provided by the provincial government and not by IRCC.
Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP
So effectively all of this pressure is offloaded onto the province. We see that happening in Quebec as well, in Manitoba, and we see it in British Columbia.
Because immigration after all, even if it's asylum seekers, is a federal issue, would you say that the federal government should be supporting provinces in trying to manage the situation, and of course doing it on a compassionate and humanitarian basis?
Marzieh Nezakat
Manager, Refugee Settlement and Integration Program, Multilingual Orientation Service Association for Immigrant CommunitiesI am not really sure of the reason for the federal government not funding refugee claimant services in B.C.—that is a question I do not have the knowledge of—but, of course, I would say yes.
The Chair Salma Zahid
Liberal
I'm sorry for interrupting, Madam Nezakat, but the time is up for Ms. Kwan.
With that, our panel comes to an end.
I want to thank all of the witnesses for appearing before the committee and providing important information.
If there is something you would like to bring to the committee's attention, you can always put it in writing and send it to clerk of the committee. That will be circulated to the members of the committee as we finalize the report.
With that, this panel comes to an end. I thank all of the witnesses. They can leave.
For members of the committee, please log off from this public meeting and then log in for the in camera meeting so that we can do the committee business.
With that, the meeting is suspended.
[Proceedings continue in camera]
