AFGH#3: Humanitarian Assistance for the Afghan people

Khalidha Nasiri, Executive Director, Afghan Youth Engagement and Development Initiative
The short answer is, absolutely. One of the members mentioned that a 10-year-old girl who was eligible to come under one of these programs died because her application was delayed. Last week, we heard of an unnamed brother of a Canadian embassy worker who was killed, presumably by the Taliban in Afghanistan, and whose application was delayed because of paperwork.
Absolutely, we think these measures would work.

Dr. Lauryn Oates, Executive Director, Canadian Women for Women in Afghanistan
Absolutely, we need to forge agreements with other governments. Again, this is something the U.S. has done. We have followed suit in so many U.S.-driven policies in Afghanistan that had bad outcomes for Afghans, so it would be good if we also emulated some that could have good outcomes.
I would emphasize that the danger is not in leaving Afghanistan; it's in staying in Afghanistan. That was tragically exemplified in the case of the girl in Kandahar who was killed while waiting to come to Canada.
We, as a small NGO, have been able to get eight families out on our own, without any assistance from the government. I can't say it was easy, but we did it, and many other organizations have done the same. If we had the government supporting us to do the same, we could do so much more. We could get people out.

Click to read the full discussion from the Committee meeting

Afghanistan Committee on Feb. 7th, 2022
Evidence of meeting #3 for Afghanistan in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session

7:15 p.m.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I just want to say thank you to all the witnesses for your presentations today, and in addition to that, for the ongoing work you do in the global community. There are many humanitarian crises and you've always been there. I very much appreciate that.

I'd like to first turn my question to Ms. Grantham to carry on with the issue around Canadian organizations' inability to provide aid on the ground. You're not the only one. Last week we heard from other organizations as well. This has been going on since August 2021, as you have indicated. When was the last time you had a substantive discussion about this with the government? When did you bring this to their attention? What was their response?

Barbara Grantham
President and Chief Executive Officer, CARE Canada

We are in contact with the government every week, frankly, trying to find various approaches to resolve the issue. We have been since probably October or November. We're in very regular touch with colleagues across a number of departments. It's chiefly Global Affairs Canada because that's the funder and the holder of the contracts, obviously, in the first place. I know they're working with other departments to try to find a solution to this.

I do believe there is clear understanding and acknowledgement of the issue and the imperative of the issue. The unfortunate thing is that the sense of urgency that we feel is not aligned with the timeline the government seems to feel is possible. We're running against a clock of weather, famine and malnutrition.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

Thank you very much.

I fully understand the urgency of the situation. Children are starving now, and they need the aid now. While we talk about it, it does not help them at this point. Other jurisdictions have managed to find a workaround or an exemption, but Canada still has not been able to do so. That's mystifying to me.

I'm gathering from you that the urgency is utmost and that your recommendation to the government is to act forthwith to provide either an exemption or a workaround similar to that of other jurisdictions. Am I correct?

Barbara Grantham
President and Chief Executive Officer, CARE Canada

That's correct.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

Thank you.

With the other two organizations, your stature may be a little bit different, but you're seeing that on the ground as well, with the NGOs. Could I just quickly ask both Mr. Fontaine and Mr. Nickerson if you would agree that the government needs to act forthwith to provide either an exemption or a workaround to Canadian organizations so that they can provide aid on the ground in Afghanistan now?

Mr. Fontaine, go ahead.

Manuel Fontaine
Director, Office of Emergency Programmes, United Nations Children's Fund (UNICEF)

Anything that at the moment is an obstacle to providing the needed urgent humanitarian assistance needs to be looked at very carefully and worked on.

As you know, the Security Council has adopted a resolution bringing exemptions to the sanctions regime for the UN, but it is important that all countries absolutely move on that.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

Mr. Nickerson, go ahead.

Dr. Jason Nickerson
Humanitarian Representative to Canada, Doctors Without Borders

Yes, we would agree. Obstacles need to be removed to ensure that humanitarian organizations are able to do their work and respond to needs on the ground.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

Thank you. I gather from your comments that it's not just for Afghanistan—obviously, we have to deal with that—but for other countries as well.

Mr. Nickerson, in terms of Doctors Without Borders, I'm sure on the ground you're working day and night to provide assistance and support to people who face persecution or who have been attacked because of persecution from the Taliban. Are you able to provide aid to them as well, particularly to those in hiding—women and girls who may be in hiding? How do they go about getting aid?

I will ask my colleague Ms. Flokstra to respond, please.

Martine Flokstra
Operations Manager, Doctors Without Borders

What we see is basically a steep increase in patients. Of course, as a consequence, a large part of the health system is not functioning and has collapsed. It is now somehow kept afloat, because that is what is currently happening with the humanitarian assistance and the humanitarian funding reaching the country. Systems are kept afloat, but they are still extremely fragile. As we have done for the past decades in our hospitals, we are treating patients who are also victims of violence. That can be domestic violence or other violence.

I would like to reiterate that there is a structural problem. The humanitarian assistance that's now given is so required, but it is very unclear what the future will bring. As we said, it's a band-aid for the current situation while the future is unknown. Humanitarian need is about the need of a person. It's a disease, and a disease does not have a political preference. I think that should be crucial in humanitarian assistance.

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

Thank you very much. Time is up.

Ms. Grantham, I see that you have a hand raised. Do you want to say something in 10 or 15 seconds?

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

Ms. Kwan, go ahead, please.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

Thank you very much.

I'd like to follow up with Ms. Grantham. I understand the idea is that we need legislative changes, but in light of the urgency of the situation, would a proposal such as...? If the government came to your organization, which is well established for many years in terms of your humanitarian aid work, and they offered a memorandum of agreement, a legal document, to exempt your organization and your aid workers from prosecution and to also exempt any approach to...potentially putting your organization in jeopardy in terms of your charitable status, would that suffice as a workaround, an idea such as that?

Somebody who's a lawyer, much brighter than me, can actually propose these ideas and come up with the documentation.

Barbara Grantham
President and Chief Executive Officer, CARE Canada

Well, I wouldn't say lawyers are necessarily brighter than you.

What I would say is that this is one of the options that we have been actively pursuing. If, in a real-time situation, we were presented with an option along those lines, and our legal counsel assured us as an organization that it removed the risk to a tolerable level for us, then we would respond very positively to that.

That's exactly the kind of scenario we are hoping for.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

Thank you so much. It's about finding a workaround and also being innovative, because if we think legislation is the only way to go, we will never get there and people will continue to die.

Ms. Grantham, in the on-the-ground organizations, the women's and girls' organizations on the ground.... Many of them, of course, are in hiding, fearing for their life. I would expect that some of them would be looking to see how they can leave Afghanistan. The stance right now is that the Canadian government does not allow refugee status for those in Afghanistan. They have to get to a third country.

Are you hearing those concerns on the ground with people who are fearing for their lives?

Barbara Grantham
President and Chief Executive Officer, CARE Canada

I should be very clear. Our current programs are paused, so we are not in a position to hear that level of detailed information in a day-to-day way. I think it is fair to say that for women in Afghanistan, their full participation in civic life is very limited and highly variable across the country.

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

Thank you, Ms. Kwan. Your time is up now.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

Mr. Chair, if I could just interject, on that question, I wonder if the witnesses can send in their written response.

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

Sure.

Thank you, Ms. Kwan.

On behalf of all members of Parliament, I would like to thank all the witnesses for their participation in this important work. If you have anything to add, you are welcome to submit it to the committee clerk. We would really appreciate it.

I'm going to suspend the meeting for a few minutes so we can do the sound check for the next panel.

Thank you.

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

Now we'll go to Ms. Kwan for six minutes, please.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all of the witnesses for their presentations and, of course, for their ongoing work in providing assistance to those who are faced with a humanitarian crisis.

My first question is for Ms. Nasiri and Dr. Oates. It centres around the comments you made about the need to ensure that Canadian organizations that are in Afghanistan right now would be able to provide assistance, whether that be aid to children who are dying of malnutrition or to women's and girls' local organizations on the ground. They're unable to do so because of Canada's anti-terrorism laws.

In the previous panel, I asked the organizations if they would support this. If a legal agreement were to be entered into by the Canadian government and those organizations that are long-established here in providing humanitarian aid, would that be sufficient for them to provide humanitarian aid in Afghanistan? That is to say, the Canadian government would provide some sort of measure outside of legislative changes to ensure that staff would not be prosecuted and the organization would not face repercussions in relation to any potential violation of the Criminal Code.

Ms. Nasiri can answer first, and then I'll go to Dr. Oates.

Khalidha Nasiri
Executive Director, Afghan Youth Engagement and Development Initiative

As I mentioned, we've heard concerning reports directly from smaller humanitarian charities working on the ground that they're receiving resistance from banks here domestically and having problems in Afghanistan with getting aid and goods there because of this law.

We think an MOU would be an acceptable temporary measure, although we need to make sure that some explicit guidance is publicly provided as well, so that banks, for example, can be reassured that it wouldn't count as criminal activity and smaller charity groups that have been operating for a long time would not be excluded from such measures.

I would echo that. There are models we can look to, like the exemptions or licences that are issued to organizations by the U.S. government to be able to continue their work on the ground.

We make our own agreements with the vendors and partners we work with to ensure that no funds of ours end up in the hands of the Taliban. That would be a very important measure.

In addition, I'd echo that the challenges from the Canadian banks are very significant in terms of being able to move funds. If that could be alleviated at all, it would go a long way as well.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

I'd like to turn to another question, related to the situation on the ground. We've heard from presenters about refugee or immigration measures, how it's almost impossible—in fact, in many cases it is impossible—for people who are still in Afghanistan to get to safety. The suggestion was to ensure that the Canadian government brings in special immigration measures, such as issuing temporary residence permits to those who need to get to safety immediately, as well as waiving the requirements for documentation.

I'd like to hear from the organizations about this. Is this something you would call on the government to enact immediately?

Go ahead, Ms. Nasiri.

Khalidha Nasiri
Executive Director, Afghan Youth Engagement and Development Initiative

The short answer is, absolutely. One of the members mentioned that a 10-year-old girl who was eligible to come under one of these programs died because her application was delayed. Last week, we heard of an unnamed brother of a Canadian embassy worker who was killed, presumably by the Taliban in Afghanistan, and whose application was delayed because of paperwork.

Absolutely, we think these measures would work.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

Thank you.

I'd like to go to Dr. Oates and then to Mr. Mirzad on the same question, please.

Dr. Lauryn Oates
Executive Director, Canadian Women for Women in Afghanistan

Absolutely, we need to forge agreements with other governments. Again, this is something the U.S. has done. We have followed suit in so many U.S.-driven policies in Afghanistan that had bad outcomes for Afghans, so it would be good if we also emulated some that could have good outcomes.

I would emphasize that the danger is not in leaving Afghanistan; it's in staying in Afghanistan. That was tragically exemplified in the case of the girl in Kandahar who was killed while waiting to come to Canada.

We, as a small NGO, have been able to get eight families out on our own, without any assistance from the government. I can't say it was easy, but we did it, and many other organizations have done the same. If we had the government supporting us to do the same, we could do so much more. We could get people out.

Ali Mirzad
Senior Government Affairs and Relations Advisor, Canadian Hazara Humanitarian Services

Absolutely. I would echo what our friends Ms. Nasiri and Ms. Oates said. There needs to be a dialogue. I said earlier that the presence of Canada on the ground in Pakistan is, in its way, one form of dialogue that Canada must have with Pakistan. In a similar fashion, Canada can have a dialogue not directly with the Taliban but through an intermediary, such as Qatar or the UAE, to forge an alliance that can help people get out, like the programs the Americans have established.

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

Thank you very much, Ms. Kwan.

I will go to Mr. Ruff and then Ms. Damoff, for four minutes each. I'll then come back to Monsieur Brunelle-Duceppe and Ms. Kwan, for two minutes each.

Mr. Ruff, you have four minutes, please.

8:40 p.m.

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
NDP

Ms. Kwan, you have two minutes, please.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

Thank you very much.

Actually, I just want to build on that. The requirement of a UNHCR refugee determination is prohibitive. People cannot get access to that. Should the government waive this requirement?

I will go to Ms. Oates, Mr. Maley and then Ms. Nasiri.

Dr. Lauryn Oates
Executive Director, Canadian Women for Women in Afghanistan

Yes, it needs to be waived.

I have heard first-hand accounts of people who have been attempting to get that status for months. They've reached a safe country—or a relatively safe country, in any case—like Pakistan and they can't get that. Their visas will run out and they'll be back. That's very important.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

Thank you.

Let's have Mr. Maley, quickly, and then Ms. Nasiri.

Dr. William Maley
Emeritus Professor, Australian National University, and Representative, Canadian Hazara Humanitarian Services

I totally agree with that.

It becomes a theatre of the absurd if Canadian or Australian resettlement, or whatever, is hostage to the bureaucratic efficiency and the resource endowments that some third agency may or may not manifest. I think that should be replaced with a much more efficient system.

AS SPOKEN

8:45 p.m.

NDP

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC

Ms. Nasiri, go ahead.

Khalidha Nasiri
Executive Director, Afghan Youth Engagement and Development Initiative

I agree with my two colleagues, absolutely. It would be very impactful if instituted immediately. The immigration minister is certainly empowered by legislation—I believe it's section 25.2 of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act—to make exemptions and essentially fast-track people at high risk based on his judgment.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

We've done it before, as you presented. We can do it again. It is certainly required for this situation.

Mr. Mirzad, you raised the issue of the government in private sponsorships. The limitations related to the group of five.... It is impossible, because people have to get refugee determination to even apply. Should the government open up the privately sponsored refugees for all the streams and waive the requirement?

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

Ms. Kwan, your time is up. I appreciate that, but I have to be very strict on this one.

On behalf of all members of Parliament, I would like to thank the witnesses for the excellent input they provided. If you want to submit anything in writing, you are welcome to do so.

Also, on behalf of all the members, I would like to thank the clerk, the analysts, the interpreters and of course the technical team for staying overtime for 15 minutes to help us.

Thank you. All the best.

The meeting is adjourned.

https://openparliament.ca/committees/afghanistan-s/44-1/3/jenny-kwan-1/

Latest posts

CIMM#115: Pension Transferability and Access to Mandatory Provident Fund (MPF), and Delays in Permanent Residence and Visas for Hong Kongers Recent Reforms to the International Student Program

James McNamee, Director General, Family and Social Immigration Branch, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
I would say that's generally the case. If the work permit they obtained was originally connected to the public policy, that's correct. I don't know if that's the situation in all cases. In some cases, applicants may have had an LMIA-based work permit to begin with.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC, NDP
That's right. However, under the special immigration measure, the LMIA is not required. I have a list of applicants in those circumstances. Their work permit renewal application was rejected. They were asked to submit an LMIA, which makes no sense. I want to flag that as a deep concern now emerging for people whose open work permits are being rejected as they wait for their permanent resident status. At this rate, given the immigration levels plan numbers and the processing delays happening, and with the number of applicants in place, you can imagine that it's going to take something like eight years to get through the backlog of people getting their PR status. This means that if they are trying to get their pension, they will not be able to do so for eight years, because they are required to provide proof of permanent residence.
I want to flag this as a major concern. I hope the department will take action to fix the error being applied to applicants whose open work permits are being rejected under this stream. Can I get a confirmation from officials that this will be undertaken?

James McNamee, Director General, Family and Social Immigration Branch, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Yes, that issue has been raised with the department already, and we're looking into it to see what exactly happened in those situations.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC, NDP
Okay. Officials are aware of it, and yet it's still happening. I have cases coming to me that are happening. I'm about to prepare a giant pile of this stuff for the minister, so I hope the officials will fix that. The other thing related to the pension, of course, is lengthy delays for people to get their permanent status. Based on the immigration levels plan and the number of applicants in place, is it the officials' anticipation that it will take about eight years to get those applications processed?

James McNamee, Director General, Family and Social Immigration Branch, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
We have looked at that possibility. Certainly, it will take longer than we had previously indicated to the committee. I would note that the first year of the levels plan is the fixed year. The years that follow, in this case, 2026 and 2027, are flexible. There are opportunities to adjust those numbers in the future, and that could affect that timeline. It's hard to say whether eight years will be the timeline, but it will be longer than had been originally predicted because the numbers have gone down.

CIMM#114: Recent Reforms to the International Student Program

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
Aside from looking at patterns of potential violators—the groups and organizations taking advantage of students with these fraudulent letters of acceptance—will you be including in the analysis what types of institutions are being utilized for these fraudulent letters? In other words, is it private institutions versus public institutions, colleges versus universities and so on? Will that be part of the analysis?

Bronwyn May, Director General, International Students Branch, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
It's not always the case that a letter originates from an institution. We would need to look at various possible sources.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
Maybe I can reframe that.
Obviously, as these are fraudulent letters of acceptance, they wouldn't be issued by the institutions. However, regarding the list of institutions being used for the purpose of these fraudulent letters, I would be interested in obtaining information to determine what percentage are private institutions and public institutions, how many of them are colleges, how many of them are universities and so on. That will tell us very specific information that I think is important when trying to tackle fraudulent activities.

Bronwyn May, Director General, International Students Branch, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
I completely agree. That's a very important line of analysis.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
I will make the further request to make sure you share this information with the committee. I'll argue that this information should not be kept secret. It should be public and transparent—shared with all Canadians—so that we're aware of what the landscape is and of how international students are being taken advantage of. With respect to that analysis, will there be information and data on what countries are being targeted?

Click to read the full discussion from the Committee meeting

CIMM#113: Pension Transferability and Access to Mandatory Provident Fund (MPF), and Delays in Permanent Residence and Visas for Hong Kongers

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
All right. Thank you.
Hence, we have this problem. You have the Canadian government, which created this lifeboat scheme for Hong Kongers who are fleeing persecution in Hong Kong as a result of the national security law. The government, in its wisdom or lack thereof, created this lifeboat scheme that only provides for temporary residence by way of a work permit or a study permit. Then these people have to go to the queue to make an application for permanent residence, and we know that there is a huge backlog and delay in processing.
In the beginning, there was swift action, but as time has passed, it's been lengthened by way of the delay, to the point where the former minister even made an announcement to further extend people's work permits and study permits for another three years. That is to say, a person could be here for six years—as long as six years—under this current scheme without getting permanent residence. This is because the minister anticipated that people would not be able to swiftly get their permanent resident status. That is the reality.
As a result of that, people are not able to provide proof of permanent residence, because the application is in process. To make it even worse, the government—the minister—just made an announcement about the levels plan, cutting levels to the tune of 105,000 permanent resident status applications.
You can imagine how long the wait-list is for Hong Kongers as they continue to wait. Now, these Hong Kongers have zero intention of returning to Hong Kong, because they know that they would be persecuted if they did. People know that. I think the Canadian government knows that.
This is my question, then, to you as the manager of their pension, which, because of this rule, they're unable to access: Would your organization be willing to write to the regulator to ask for consideration for these applicants who are in a prolonged period of waiting for permanent resident status, to ask that their declaration indicating that they do not intend to return to Hong Kong be accepted as proof that they intend to leave Hong Kong permanently so that they can access their pensions? Is that something that your organization would consider doing?

Maryscott Greenwood, Global Head, Government Relations, The Manufacturers Life Insurance Company
I think I understand the question.
The basic premise of your question has to do with the period of time it takes for the Government of Canada to determine and provide permanent residency or citizenship. It seems to me that this is a function of the Government of Canada, as opposed to a regulated entity. That's how I would answer that.

Laura Hewitt, Senior Vice-President and Head, Global Government Affairs and Public Policy, Sun Life Financial Services of Canada Inc.
Yes. I would say that it's not within our authority to change the criteria.
However, our numbers show that once that permanent residency does come through, we're able to process the applications and approve Canadian permanent residents.

AFGH#3: Humanitarian Assistance for the Afghan people

Click to read the full discussion from the Committee meeting

https://openparliament.ca/committees/afghanistan-s/44-1/3/jenny-kwan-1/

Latest posts

CIMM#115: Pension Transferability and Access to Mandatory Provident Fund (MPF), and Delays in Permanent Residence and Visas for Hong Kongers Recent Reforms to the International Student Program

CIMM#114: Recent Reforms to the International Student Program

Click to read the full discussion from the Committee meeting

CIMM#113: Pension Transferability and Access to Mandatory Provident Fund (MPF), and Delays in Permanent Residence and Visas for Hong Kongers

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