AFGN#12: Humanitarian Assistance for the Afghan people

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC, NDP
Through you, Mr. Chair, I'd like to ask the minister this first question. She indicated that 3,700 Afghans were evacuated during this critical period. Could the minister advise on whether all the flights were full in the evacuation effort?

Anita Anand Oakville, ON, Liberal
Of course, I was not the minister at the time, but I'd like to say something very important on this topic. The limiting factor at the airport was not the fact that there were our planes there. The limiting factor was the fact that we had only one slot per day to evacuate Afghan nationals. To me, that has to be recognized every single time we talk about the evacuation. Chief, do you want to add anything?

Gen Wayne D. Eyre
Mr. Chair, thanks for the opportunity to add some more detail to the minister's statement. I think we need to look at this in two periods—pre-August 15, before Kabul fell to the Taliban, and then post-August 15. Before August 15, yes, there were some flights that were not at full capacity. The reason was quite simple. Late in the game, the Government of Afghanistan imposed a requirement for all those leaving Afghanistan to have valid Afghan passports. Those Afghans could not get through Afghan government security at the airport to board those flights. That was the reason that a number of flights before August 15 were not at capacity.
After August 15, shortly after we re-established the air bridge, a number of the initial flights were not at full capacity, because we were just getting ourselves established with our troops on the ground. Finding sufficient numbers of Canadian entitled personnel, in the very, very small window that we had, was a challenge. I will say, however, that in the latter part we certainly made up for those flights that weren't filled to complete capacity by putting many more on the flights than the planes were designed for. There were 534 Afghans in the back of a C-17 that was designed for 200. That's the type of measure our members on the ground took to get out as many Afghans as possible.

Anita Anand Oakville, ON, Liberal
I'll add to that, if I may. You have to remember that there were a number of factors that the Canadian Armed Forces had to take into account in loading those planes. These included weather, fuel, cargo and weight considerations, which all fluctuated with the different types of aircraft that we had on the ground. We had the CC-130J Hercules, the CC-150 Polaris and the CC-177 Globemaster. It is, again, a testament to our Canadian Armed Forces personnel that they were able to do an exceptional job. The fact is that they're highly skilled professionals who were operating under extreme pressure in a fluid and unpredictable environment, and I'm very proud of their work.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC, NDP
Thank you. The empty seats were a result of people not being able to get the passports that were required, because of the changed rules. Subsequently, the flights were over-subscribed to make up for those numbers. That is the gist of what I understand. At the time of the evacuation, did Canada evacuate any Afghans who made it through the airport gates, but were not on the GAC-referred lists or on the IRCC lists?

Gen Wayne D. Eyre
Mr. Chair, the answer is yes. The situation on the ground was fluid. One of the lessons we've taken away from this is the delegation of authority to the lowest levels. Our commanders and our young leaders on the ground made decisions at times to take Afghans who weren't on the list because they were part of a vulnerable community or there was sufficient evidence to believe that, yes, there was some link with Canada. Those are the types of decisions that our people on the ground were making very successfully.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC, NDP
Do we know how many of the folks fall into that category?

Click to read the full discussion from the Committee meeting

Afghanistan Committee on May 9th, 2022
Evidence of meeting #12 for Afghanistan in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session

6:55 p.m.

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

Thank you, Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.

We will now go to the NDP.

Honourable member Kwan, go ahead, please, for six minutes.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the minister and to the officials for coming before the committee, with a special thank you, of course, to our military for the work you do each and every day to keep Canada safe and the incredible work you're doing abroad as well, with so many crises around the globe.

Through you, Mr. Chair, I'd like to ask the minister this first question. She indicated that 3,700 Afghans were evacuated during this critical period. Could the minister advise on whether all the flights were full in the evacuation effort?

Anita Anand Oakville, ON
Liberal

Of course, I was not the minister at the time, but I'd like to say something very important on this topic. The limiting factor at the airport was not the fact that there were our planes there. The limiting factor was the fact that we had only one slot per day to evacuate Afghan nationals. To me, that has to be recognized every single time we talk about the evacuation.

Chief, do you want to add anything?

Gen Wayne D. Eyre

Mr. Chair, thanks for the opportunity to add some more detail to the minister's statement.

I think we need to look at this in two periods—pre-August 15, before Kabul fell to the Taliban, and then post-August 15. Before August 15, yes, there were some flights that were not at full capacity. The reason was quite simple. Late in the game, the Government of Afghanistan imposed a requirement for all those leaving Afghanistan to have valid Afghan passports. Those Afghans could not get through Afghan government security at the airport to board those flights. That was the reason that a number of flights before August 15 were not at capacity.

After August 15, shortly after we re-established the air bridge, a number of the initial flights were not at full capacity, because we were just getting ourselves established with our troops on the ground. Finding sufficient numbers of Canadian entitled personnel, in the very, very small window that we had, was a challenge.

I will say, however, that in the latter part we certainly made up for those flights that weren't filled to complete capacity by putting many more on the flights than the planes were designed for. There were 534 Afghans in the back of a C-17 that was designed for 200. That's the type of measure our members on the ground took to get out as many Afghans as possible.

Anita Anand Oakville, ON
Liberal

I'll add to that, if I may.

You have to remember that there were a number of factors that the Canadian Armed Forces had to take into account in loading those planes. These included weather, fuel, cargo and weight considerations, which all fluctuated with the different types of aircraft that we had on the ground. We had the CC-130J Hercules, the CC-150 Polaris and the CC-177 Globemaster.

It is, again, a testament to our Canadian Armed Forces personnel that they were able to do an exceptional job. The fact is that they're highly skilled professionals who were operating under extreme pressure in a fluid and unpredictable environment, and I'm very proud of their work.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

Thank you.

The empty seats were a result of people not being able to get the passports that were required, because of the changed rules. Subsequently, the flights were over-subscribed to make up for those numbers. That is the gist of what I understand.

At the time of the evacuation, did Canada evacuate any Afghans who made it through the airport gates, but were not on the GAC-referred lists or on the IRCC lists?

Gen Wayne D. Eyre

Mr. Chair, the answer is yes. The situation on the ground was fluid. One of the lessons we've taken away from this is the delegation of authority to the lowest levels.

Our commanders and our young leaders on the ground made decisions at times to take Afghans who weren't on the list because they were part of a vulnerable community or there was sufficient evidence to believe that, yes, there was some link with Canada. Those are the types of decisions that our people on the ground were making very successfully.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

Do we know how many of the folks fall into that category?

Gen Wayne D. Eyre

Mr. Chair, the simple answer is no. I will ask Vice-Admiral Auchterlonie if he has those stats.

Vice-Admiral J.R. Auchterlonie Commander of the Canadian Joint Operations Command, Department of National Defence

Thank you, chief.

I don't know them off the top of my head.

Thank you, Mr. Chair, for allowing me to join.

I'll echo the Chief's comment there and to reinforce the Minister's point, just to get back to that, there were two different phases. The fact is—

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

I'm sorry. Can I suggest that maybe we could get those numbers submitted to the committee? I would appreciate that.

Gen Wayne D. Eyre

I'm not sure that we have those numbers with any degree of accuracy.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

I see.

VAdm J.R. Auchterlonie

To clarify, we were part of a coalition air bridge at the time. So, not only were we bringing Canadian-entitled personnel, we were also bringing cargo and allied-entitled personnel. Therefore, in terms of those numbers, we were not only bringing Canadian-entitled persons, but also the coalition air bridge.

In those early flights after Kabul fell, we had Canadian-entitled personnel and allied personnel on the plane, as well as Afghans if they were proceeding to our nation. It wasn't only our personnel.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

Yes. We have heard that from witnesses who were particularly concerned from the perspective that many of the folks Canada had identified did not make it on the flight, so I was trying to get clarity on that.

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

Thank you very much, Madam Kwan. Your time is up, unless the vice-admiral wants to respond to Madam Kwan's question briefly. Probably not.

Okay. Thank you.

We'll now come back to you, Ms. Findlay, for five minutes. Go ahead, please.

7:20 p.m.

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

I'll let Madam Kwan take the floor.

Please go ahead for two and a half minutes.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NSP

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Could the minister advise us on how many Afghans your department identified as people who have an enduring relationship with Canada and should be evacuated to Canada?

Anita Anand Oakville, ON
Liberal

As I said, we evacuated 3,700—

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
Jenny Kwan

Sorry. The question was on how many you have identified that you want to evacuate, not how many you actually evacuated.

Anita Anand Oakville, ON
Liberal

I will ask my deputy minister to provide more specifics.

Bill Matthews
Deputy Minister of National Defence, Department of National Defence

The last numbers I have—Chief, please correct me if I'm out of date—were that 3,800 were validated by DND and forwarded to IRCC.

The chief may have more current information.

Gen Wayne D. Eyre

Mr. Chair, those numbers are accurate. We received somewhere in the neighbourhood of 7,500 inquiries, or Afghans who were interested, but we were able to validate about 3,800 who had an enduring relationship with the Canadian Armed Forces.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

So 3,800 were validated, but on the 3,700 who were evacuated, how many of those 3,700 were the ones the department identified?

Gen Wayne D. Eyre

Mr. Chair, I don't have those numbers in front of me. The numbers we're talking about are as of April 1 of this year. It's important to note that after the evacuation efforts ceased, requests still kept coming in. In fact, they come in to this day.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

I wonder if the officials, then, could table with this committee the numbers for the entire period. How many were identified before the fall of Kabul? How many were identified after the fall of Kabul? How many were evacuated during the two periods in 2021—between August 4 and 15 and between August 15 and 26—and then thereafter? Can we get that breakdown? Could we also get that information tabled to the committee?

I'm also interested in knowing how many have been left behind. Do the officials or the department track the numbers of those who were referred to IRCC? How many of those who were referred to IRCC have subsequently been evacuated or made it out of Afghanistan to safety ?

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

Thank you very much, Ms. Kwan. Your time is up, but I will give a few minutes to Mr. Matthews.

Very quickly, I'm not sure we have the level of granularity the member is looking for, but in terms of the 3,800 validated, 900 have been accepted, plus their families. Those are the numbers I have. I don't have a number of what the family member would add to the 900.

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

Thank you very much, Ms. Kwan. Your time is up.

We are going to Mr. Ruff for seven minutes, or three minutes and a half and three minutes after the Liberals.

Go ahead, please.

7:55 p.m.

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

Honourable member Kwan, you will have six minutes. Please go ahead.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Could the officials advise us how many Afghans and their family members the department identified as having an enduring relationship with Canada. Could I have an answer to that first question?

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

Deputy Minister, do you want to respond?

Maybe I'll start, and the general can correct me if he has better information.

My understanding is that 3,800 were validated by National Defence and CAF, and forwarded to IRCC. Of that 3,800, 900 were accepted by IRCC, and that would imply that they were accepted along with any family members who met the criteria. That's the most current I have.

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

General Eyre, do you want to respond?

Gen Wayne D. Eyre

I have the same figures, Mr. Chair.

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

Thank you.

Madam Kwan.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

In terms of the information that 900 were accepted by IRCC, can you advise us what that means?

I would assume it means—and we will have to confirm it—that it's then in the hands of IRCC to make contact and start the process.

Effectively, the role of DND would end once the validation is done and forwarded to IRCC.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

What happened to the other 3,100, then?

I would assume—but, again, it is a question for IRCC—that they are still being processed or assessed, or have not been accepted. That, again, is in the hands of IRCC.

The process would be that the Afghan individual would contact the department and look for validation. DND provides what they have and can confirm, and then it's over to IRCC.

Chief, do you want to add to that?

Gen Wayne D. Eyre

I have nothing further to add.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

Sorry, I meant 2,900 earlier, not 3,100.

I have individuals who have contacted me who have received confirmation from your department as persons who have been verified as having an enduring relationship, and an email from your department indicating that they have been referred to IRCC since November. It appears that IRCC may not even have any verification that they have received this documentation.

We heard the same thing from GAC last week. GAC made referrals to IRCC, and then this week, I found out that officials are asking those individuals to ask GAC again for another referral.

I am quite concerned that these folks who have been identified by your department as having an enduring relationship with Canada and should be brought to safety in Canada are now just lost in the wind. I don't know what IRCC has done with it, and they don't even know whether or not IRCC has their file. They have no way of knowing what the decision is.

Are you concerned about that, and is the department doing anything to follow up with IRCC on what is happening with those files that have been left behind?

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

Deputy Minister Matthews.

All I can offer at this stage, Mr. Chair, is that once DND and CAF have done their validation, it goes into the IRCC process. I can't comment on how that process is or where a particular file is in their process.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

Thank you.

I am a bit distressed about this because what we heard from GAC it is that they've made their referral, and then, when applicants contact IRCC, IRCC is asking, “Can you ask GAC to make the referral again?” You have to wonder what's happened to the file.

Now I am wondering, on the referrals that have been made by your department, DND, whether or not those actually even made it to IRCC or have been lost within IRCC.

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

Deputy Minister, do you want to respond?

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

My question, then, to the department is: Will you undertake to follow up with IRCC, to make sure that the referrals you've made are files that are not lost in the system?

I think, Mr. Chair, that this is an IRCC process, and it's best left to IRCC to answer the question on how they are processing these.

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

Thank you, Madam Kwan.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

Thank you very much.

I am quite distressed about that, I have to say, because on all accounts it seems to me that IRCC.... I don't know what's happening at IRCC with those files, and people have no way of knowing whether or not they are going to be able to have issuance of an invitation if IRCC is not following up.

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

IRCC is not here, Madam Kwan. Certainly if they were here—

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

All right, I'm going to ask a different question.

Since the evacuation, at the current time, is your department engaged with your counterparts in allied countries in an ongoing discussion on how we can continue to work together to bring Afghans to safety?

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

General Eyre, go ahead, please.

Gen Wayne D. Eyre

Mr. Chair, no. This is a GAC lead, so we are in support of GAC if the request comes.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

To be clear, GAC has not asked you to engage.

Gen Wayne D. Eyre

That's clear, yes.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

Okay. I'm distressed by that answer as well.

Maybe you can give me a quick answer. If you were asked, would you be able to engage and provide support to bring further Afghans to safety?

Gen Wayne D. Eyre

Mr. Chair, it depends on the nature of the ask, where it would be, the numbers, the security situation—

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

Third countries.

Gen Wayne D. Eyre

What third country?

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

Pakistan.

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

Madam Kwan, one person at a time, please. This time is up, almost. Let General Eyre finish the conversation.

Please, go ahead.

Gen Wayne D. Eyre

As with any request for assistance, we would have to do an assessment. What is the nature of the request? What is the security situation? What is being asked of us, and then what options could we provide?

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

Thank you, Madam Kwan.

We'll go to Mr. Hallan for five minutes.

Please, go ahead.

8:15 p.m.

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

Thank you very much, Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.

Now we'll go to Ms. Kwan for two and a half minutes.

Please go ahead.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

Thank you.

I wonder if the department would have any concerns if Canada were to conduct biometrics of Afghans either in third countries or in Canada after they've arrived in Canada.

Gen Wayne D. Eyre

Mr. Chair, I would have to get advice on that question. Any collection of biometrics would be in support of another department. Unfortunately, I don't have a good answer for you on that.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

I would love to get your answer in writing to the committee at a later time.

The reason why I ask is this: IRCC will say it's not up to them, that because of national security it's up to Defence and others to make that decision. So we consequently have a situation where everybody is passing the buck to someone else, and I'm interested in knowing what can be done and how it could be done, and can Canada work in collaboration with allied countries to help to get this done? Because, if based on the numbers we have received, the 3,800 which you referred to IRCC, only 900 have been processed—hopefully, here, but maybe not.... The rest of them, I don't know what's happened to them.

With respect to documentations, because of the collaboration that's required, there are situations where people literally are hiding right now and they're burning their documents at the moment, so to require them to submit those documentations is almost an impossible task.

I understand national security, but I also think we need to step up to try to figure out what to do here and how we can proceed, so I'd love to get your advice on what Canada can do to help bring more Afghans to safety.

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

Admiral Auchterlonie, please go ahead.

VAdm J.R. Auchterlonie

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thanks very much for the question. I guess there a few questions in there.

One is, do we have the capability to do that? I'll give the Ukrainian answer right now.

Right now, the Canadian Armed Forces are supporting IRCC at the Canadian Biometric Operations Centre in Warsaw. We are working with the IRCC to support the biometric operations for the visas for Ukrainians coming to Canada. So is the capability available? Yes. In fact, based on my experience on the joint staff in 2015 with the Syrian refugees, we have done this in a third nation.

I guess the key point in this is that we are doing it in Warsaw right now with a co-operative ally. We have host nation consent with our partners in Warsaw—the Poles—to actually be doing this. IRCC is leading it, and we are supporting.

Is the capability available? Yes. To be speculative, you would have to have host nation consent to be able to do it in a third nation, and that is probably not a question for this department.

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

Thank you, Ms. Kwan. Your time is up.

We will go to Madam Findlay.

8:30 p.m.

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal

Thank you. I appreciate that.

Now I'll take the last few seconds to hear from Madam Kwan before I adjourn the meeting.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I wonder if the committee can indulge this request.

In light of what we've heard from the representatives from the Department of National Defence, I am wondering if we can ask IRCC to confirm that they have received the 3,800 applications referred by DND and advise us how many have been processed with an invitation and assigned a G number, how many have arrived in Canada and when could the rest of the 2,900 applications expect to be processed.

If I could ask the committee, through the clerk, to submit that request to IRCC.... I don't know if I need a motion in that regard. If I do, I'll move that as a motion.

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

If there's unanimous consent among the membership, then she's okay. Do I see unanimous...? No, there's no unanimous—

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

I'm sorry, Mr. Chair. I wasn't asking for unanimous consent. I'm just moving this as a motion.

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

You have the right to move the motion and...

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

Let's vote.

Yvan Baker Etobicoke Centre, ON
Liberal

I have a point of order, Chair.

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

Mr. Baker, before I give you the floor, can we tell the deputy minister and the leadership team in uniform that they can go? This has nothing to do with them.

We do appreciate this, and thank you for your time and efforts today.

There's a motion on the floor. We still have quorum.

Mr. Baker and Mr. Sidhu, I see that your hands are up.

Mr. Baker, the floor is yours.

Yvan Baker Etobicoke Centre, ON
Liberal

Chair, I wonder if you can help me understand. The request is for IRCC, which is not before us at the moment. Could I just ask you to consult with our clerk as to whether this request is even in order?

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

The committee has its own destiny, Mr. Baker, and we can bring whatever we want to. Making that decision depends on having a majority of the membership on the committee.

Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe, I'll come back to you. Mr. Sidhu had his hand raised before.

Mr. Sidhu, go ahead, please.

Maninder Sidhu Brampton East, ON
Liberal

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I think out of respect for both official languages, the norm with the committee is that these motions be presented in both official languages so we can have a look at them.

Michael Chong Wellington—Halton Hills, ON
Conservative

On a point of order, that is incorrect, Mr. Chair. Motions that are presented orally, because of translation that is made available ubiquitously throughout the committees and the chamber, can be presented in the language of the member's choice.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

That is correct.

If Mr. Sidhu is finished, I'll go to Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.

Maninder Sidhu Brampton East, ON
Conservative

I've been on other committees in the past, my honourable colleague, where it's happened that we had it in writing.

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

Mr. Sidhu, the general rule is that it can be in any language when it's brought forward verbally, so thank you.

Maninder Sidhu Brampton East, ON
Liberal

Thank you.

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

We'll go to Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe. Please go ahead.

Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Bloc

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Even though the motion was submitted in English, I got the interpretation so I know what it concerns. It's fine. I would ask that the motion be put to a vote.

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

Before I call the vote, there are two hands up.

Mr. El-Khoury and Mr. Baker.

Fayçal El-Khoury Laval—Les Îles, QC
Liberal

I have a question, Mr. Chair. Can we move a motion before a notice?

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

We're fine.

Okay, should we go to the vote now? I'm going to call on the honourable clerk of the committee to call the vote.

Mr. Baker, you had something to add? I see you have your hand up.

Yvan Baker Etobicoke Centre, ON
Liberal

No, that's fine, Chair.

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

Okay, thank you.

Go ahead, Madam Clerk.

The Clerk of the Committee Ms. Miriam Burke

On the motion by Ms. Kwan, I'll call the vote.

(Motion agreed to: yeas 6; nays 5 [See Minutes of Proceedings])

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

Thank you.

I adjourn the meeting.

https://openparliament.ca/committees/afghanistan-s/44-1/12/jenny-kwan-1/

Latest posts

CIMM#115: Pension Transferability and Access to Mandatory Provident Fund (MPF), and Delays in Permanent Residence and Visas for Hong Kongers Recent Reforms to the International Student Program

James McNamee, Director General, Family and Social Immigration Branch, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
I would say that's generally the case. If the work permit they obtained was originally connected to the public policy, that's correct. I don't know if that's the situation in all cases. In some cases, applicants may have had an LMIA-based work permit to begin with.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC, NDP
That's right. However, under the special immigration measure, the LMIA is not required. I have a list of applicants in those circumstances. Their work permit renewal application was rejected. They were asked to submit an LMIA, which makes no sense. I want to flag that as a deep concern now emerging for people whose open work permits are being rejected as they wait for their permanent resident status. At this rate, given the immigration levels plan numbers and the processing delays happening, and with the number of applicants in place, you can imagine that it's going to take something like eight years to get through the backlog of people getting their PR status. This means that if they are trying to get their pension, they will not be able to do so for eight years, because they are required to provide proof of permanent residence.
I want to flag this as a major concern. I hope the department will take action to fix the error being applied to applicants whose open work permits are being rejected under this stream. Can I get a confirmation from officials that this will be undertaken?

James McNamee, Director General, Family and Social Immigration Branch, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Yes, that issue has been raised with the department already, and we're looking into it to see what exactly happened in those situations.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC, NDP
Okay. Officials are aware of it, and yet it's still happening. I have cases coming to me that are happening. I'm about to prepare a giant pile of this stuff for the minister, so I hope the officials will fix that. The other thing related to the pension, of course, is lengthy delays for people to get their permanent status. Based on the immigration levels plan and the number of applicants in place, is it the officials' anticipation that it will take about eight years to get those applications processed?

James McNamee, Director General, Family and Social Immigration Branch, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
We have looked at that possibility. Certainly, it will take longer than we had previously indicated to the committee. I would note that the first year of the levels plan is the fixed year. The years that follow, in this case, 2026 and 2027, are flexible. There are opportunities to adjust those numbers in the future, and that could affect that timeline. It's hard to say whether eight years will be the timeline, but it will be longer than had been originally predicted because the numbers have gone down.

CIMM#114: Recent Reforms to the International Student Program

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
Aside from looking at patterns of potential violators—the groups and organizations taking advantage of students with these fraudulent letters of acceptance—will you be including in the analysis what types of institutions are being utilized for these fraudulent letters? In other words, is it private institutions versus public institutions, colleges versus universities and so on? Will that be part of the analysis?

Bronwyn May, Director General, International Students Branch, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
It's not always the case that a letter originates from an institution. We would need to look at various possible sources.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
Maybe I can reframe that.
Obviously, as these are fraudulent letters of acceptance, they wouldn't be issued by the institutions. However, regarding the list of institutions being used for the purpose of these fraudulent letters, I would be interested in obtaining information to determine what percentage are private institutions and public institutions, how many of them are colleges, how many of them are universities and so on. That will tell us very specific information that I think is important when trying to tackle fraudulent activities.

Bronwyn May, Director General, International Students Branch, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
I completely agree. That's a very important line of analysis.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
I will make the further request to make sure you share this information with the committee. I'll argue that this information should not be kept secret. It should be public and transparent—shared with all Canadians—so that we're aware of what the landscape is and of how international students are being taken advantage of. With respect to that analysis, will there be information and data on what countries are being targeted?

Click to read the full discussion from the Committee meeting

CIMM#113: Pension Transferability and Access to Mandatory Provident Fund (MPF), and Delays in Permanent Residence and Visas for Hong Kongers

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
All right. Thank you.
Hence, we have this problem. You have the Canadian government, which created this lifeboat scheme for Hong Kongers who are fleeing persecution in Hong Kong as a result of the national security law. The government, in its wisdom or lack thereof, created this lifeboat scheme that only provides for temporary residence by way of a work permit or a study permit. Then these people have to go to the queue to make an application for permanent residence, and we know that there is a huge backlog and delay in processing.
In the beginning, there was swift action, but as time has passed, it's been lengthened by way of the delay, to the point where the former minister even made an announcement to further extend people's work permits and study permits for another three years. That is to say, a person could be here for six years—as long as six years—under this current scheme without getting permanent residence. This is because the minister anticipated that people would not be able to swiftly get their permanent resident status. That is the reality.
As a result of that, people are not able to provide proof of permanent residence, because the application is in process. To make it even worse, the government—the minister—just made an announcement about the levels plan, cutting levels to the tune of 105,000 permanent resident status applications.
You can imagine how long the wait-list is for Hong Kongers as they continue to wait. Now, these Hong Kongers have zero intention of returning to Hong Kong, because they know that they would be persecuted if they did. People know that. I think the Canadian government knows that.
This is my question, then, to you as the manager of their pension, which, because of this rule, they're unable to access: Would your organization be willing to write to the regulator to ask for consideration for these applicants who are in a prolonged period of waiting for permanent resident status, to ask that their declaration indicating that they do not intend to return to Hong Kong be accepted as proof that they intend to leave Hong Kong permanently so that they can access their pensions? Is that something that your organization would consider doing?

Maryscott Greenwood, Global Head, Government Relations, The Manufacturers Life Insurance Company
I think I understand the question.
The basic premise of your question has to do with the period of time it takes for the Government of Canada to determine and provide permanent residency or citizenship. It seems to me that this is a function of the Government of Canada, as opposed to a regulated entity. That's how I would answer that.

Laura Hewitt, Senior Vice-President and Head, Global Government Affairs and Public Policy, Sun Life Financial Services of Canada Inc.
Yes. I would say that it's not within our authority to change the criteria.
However, our numbers show that once that permanent residency does come through, we're able to process the applications and approve Canadian permanent residents.

AFGN#12: Humanitarian Assistance for the Afghan people

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CIMM#113: Pension Transferability and Access to Mandatory Provident Fund (MPF), and Delays in Permanent Residence and Visas for Hong Kongers

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