AFGN#7: Humanitarian Assistance for the Afghan people

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC, NDP
It's my understanding that you've also submitted a long list of individuals, of Afghans who need to get to safety. Did any of them receive a file number from the government or a response from the government?

Wadood Dilsoz, Director, Afghan Community Vancouver
They received only a confirmation. It was an automated confirmation. They haven't received anything, zero response.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC, NDP
When was the application or the contact made with the IRCC?

Wadood Dilsoz, Director, Afghan Community Vancouver
I have many people on my list. Some of them started from August 15 or 16, and onwards. The dates are different.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC, NDP
Okay, but none of them has received a response.
To the question around being able to leave Afghanistan and then get to a third country if they were given a travel visa or temporary resident permit from the Canadian government, would you agree that if that was done, Afghans would be able to get to a third country? It would be fraught with risks, and I'm not trying to minimize that, but would they have some capacity to do that? Or is that a reason for the government to then say, well, they can't even get to a third country, so there's no reason we should process their applications?

Wadood Dilsoz, Director, Afghan Community Vancouver
For some of these individuals, the IRCC suggested to me that if they go to a third country they would be able to help them. A few of them left Afghanistan. I can say some are journalists. One of them is a very well-known anchor, but none of them received any type of help or response. When they applied to UNHCR, as suggested to us by IRCC, the waiting list to meet with UNHCR is months long.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC, NDP
Thank you. Aside from the government needing to waive the refugee determination requirement, another thing that's a roadblock for Afghans to get to safety is the fact that the government requires them to be in a third country. I think that's why they're not processing their applications. To all the witnesses, would you say that what the government must do at this point in time is to change that immigration requirement and to say that Afghans do not need to be in a third country in order to make their application?
I will start with Ms. Frogh, who has not spoken yet.

Wazhma Frogh, Founder, Women & Peace Studies Organization – Afghanistan
Yes, absolutely. If, for example, they are given a travel authorization.... Many of my colleagues received travel authorizations during the August evacuation. If that could be provided, or temporary permits, they will arrange somehow, with all the risks, to go, or maybe even to go from Afghanistan to another country. That is one step towards addressing it.
In August and September, my organization submitted...45 women who have been working with the Canadian military in Afghanistan, who have implemented Canada fund projects with Canada's embassy. None of those women have made it to Canada, and we have not heard a word from them. Even Canada's ambassadors have been involved. They were contacting IRCC on our behalf, but there has been nothing yet.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC, NDP
Thank you. I want to go back to the last question, because one of the huge roadblocks for people to get out is the immigration measure that requires people to be already in a third country. Without the temporary travel permit, they cannot get to a third country.
My question then, for Ms. Rezayee and then Mr. Dilsoz, is this: Should the government change the special immigration measure that requires Afghans to be in a third country in order to access immigration supports?

Wadood Dilsoz, Director, Afghan Community Vancouver
Absolutely, it has to be changed. As we speak right now, someone is being tortured or someone is being killed. This is unfortunate. I think we have to change these measures.

Friba Rezayee, Founder and Executive Director, Women Leaders of Tomorrow
Absolutely. What we're asking of the Canadian government is doable and achievable. Please remove the third country requirement, as well as the documents from UNHCR. Our female athletes are in Islamabad at the moment, but they can't have any documents from UNHCR in order to qualify for the IRCC application. Our need is very basic and also very doable.

Click to read the full discussion from the Committee meeting

Afghanistan Committee on March 28th, 2022
Evidence of meeting #7 for Afghanistan in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session

7:05 p.m.

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

Now we'll go to Ms. Kwan for six minutes, please.

Go ahead.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses for their presentations.

You're absolutely correct, in the sense that when Canada undertook the Syrian refugee initiative, we waived the refugee determination requirements. However, that is not being done in this instance. In fact, any of the refugee sponsorships from the group of five process also would not get the waiver of the refugee determination process. From that perspective, it means that people would not be able to get out within the 40,000 that the government wants to resettle.

I hear that this is your number one priority for the government to undertake. Why do you think the government is not proceeding with it?

I actually don't understand it. I've talked to the minister, it feels like a million times, raising this issue, but they're refusing to acknowledge this and move forward. Do you have any speculation as to why that is?

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

Whom did you want to question?

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

I'm going to ask all the witnesses, if I could, please.

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

Okay. We'll start with Ms. MacLean.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

Sure. We'll start with Ms. MacLean.

Maybe you can give a quick answer so that we can move through the process with others.

Alison MacLean
Documentarian, Producer of Burkas2Bullets, As an Individual

Thank you.

I believe that IRCC is completely understaffed. Our embassies, particularly in Pakistan, need to have more staff. They're overwhelmed. I have two families who have waited two months in Pakistan just for one interview, and that has not occurred.

It is about staffing. We need to increase the numbers. IRCC is overwhelmed, and they are not able to process the files.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

Okay.

Go ahead, Mr. Taheri.

Djawid Taheri
Lawyer, As an Individual

To me, it's mind-boggling that the government is so firm in not waiving this requirement. Back in August, I actually wrote an open letter to the Prime Minister and the other ministers involved. It was submitted to them. That was one of my recommendations right at the outset.

Subsequently, at every meeting we've had, this issue was raised, and we were promised that likely they would think about the technicalities and get back to us, but so far it hasn't been done. It would make so much sense, and it would make the work of resettling Afghans a lot easier.

Most important, as I stated, there are a lot of Canadian groups in Canada who are willing, ready and able to actually undertake all the work that is needed to settle these refugees in Canada, including the costs—

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

Thank you.

—but they can't do it because of this.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

Thank you. I'm sorry. I don't mean to cut you off, but I need to get to the next witness.

I will go to Ms. Kandalaft.

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

It's Ms. Moloney.

Katherine Moloney
Representative for Afghan Families, Tenth Church

Yes. That's not official yet. I'm going by my maiden name here.

I think the reason why Canada is not issuing temporary visas for Afghans where they are for Ukrainians is that there is a perception of badness. I think there is a fear that Afghans fleeing the Taliban may in fact be Taliban, and while that is not substantiated, I think that's the fear.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

I'd like to follow up with you, Katherine, if I may.

One of the key issues, of course, is about family reunification, which you have illustrated and pointed out. In fact, I'm a product of Canada's immigration process, whereby extended family could sponsor someone to come. That's what happened to me and my family back in the 1970s, yet successive governments have done away with this program, and now we're only bringing it forward on a selective basis to selected individuals.

Is your number one priority to say to the government that they at least should expand the extended family reunification sponsorship program to Afghans as well?

Absolutely. That is the message that the Afghan community is pushing for the government. Yes.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

Okay.

Now, one of the issues we've heard from other witnesses is this. Many people are in Afghanistan. They can't get out. The requirement for the program is that you have to be in a third country, but they can't get out to a third country. Other witnesses have indicated, though, that the Canadian government can deploy the military and other resources to help Afghans get to safety and into Canada. What are your thoughts on that?

We'll start with you, Katherine, and then we'll go up the list.

Thank you.

With regard specifically to families of Afghan Canadians here, I think that if they are in receipt of a visa, then they are able to cross a border to Pakistan and get to Canada, so the Canadian government is able to offer safety to people who are in Afghanistan and are at risk.

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

You have 20 seconds.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

I have 20 seconds, so I will go to Ms. MacLean, if I could.

Alison MacLean
Documentarian, Producer of Burkas2Bullets, As an Individual

Actually, I have helped three families, first to leave Afghanistan legally through visas and passports, and then to have them moved to Pakistan, because Canada does not have a presence and would not allow interviews for my refugee families from Iran, which I think is also a mistake. Iran was safe, and cheaper. Pakistan is overwhelmed. We have to pay $250 every two months to get two-month visas. Pakistan is not allowing longer visas for the refugees, so it's a cheap cash crunch.

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

Thank you, Ms. Kwan. That is your time.

Now we'll go to Mr. Ruff for five minutes, please.

7:25 p.m.

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

We'll now go to Ms. Kwan, for two and a half minutes, please.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

I have two quick questions.

One is, when you speak of the temporary residence visa, do you mean a temporary residence permit, which is something that the minister can authorize and issue to individual families who are particularly at risk? If the minister did that, they would have a travel document to try to get to safety.

I just want that clarified, and then I have another question to quickly ask.

I'll first go to Ms. Moloney, and then I'll go to Mr. Taheri.

That is absolutely the case.

I have applied for ministerial interventions and I am awaiting a response.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC

How long ago was that?

For these two families, actually....

I think we need to roll this out a little bit more widely than the minister having to authorize all of these. It needs to be a more streamlined approach.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC

I'll just jump in very quickly.

With previous humanitarian crises that have happened.... The minister actually has the authority to broadly authorize temporary residence permits for all the people in that particular country to access. It's not a one-by-one process.

This is what you mean, for the government and the minister to issue temporary residence permits broadly to Afghans who need to get to safety. Is that right?

Absolutely.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC

Thank you.

Mr. Taheri, could you respond very quickly? I think I'm almost out of time.

Djawid Taheri
Lawyer, As an Individual

That's absolutely the case.

The minister does have the authority to authorize a TRP with respect to a particular population, in terms of emergency settlement or situations of crisis such as this. TRV or TRP, travel visas or permits, either way, would assist Afghans to get to Canada and follow up with the rest of the process while in this country.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

The problem with TRVs is the arduous process. Even with the Ukrainian situation, people have to get the biometrics and do all of that stuff, which is hugely problematic. I think TRPs would be more expedited.

As it stands now, people who've submitted a request for assistance to get to safety, such as the cases of your two families, Ms. Moloney.... You submit an application, and then you don't hear anything. That's what I'm seeing right now. People are not getting a response at all from the government. You're not getting a file number, a G number, and you're stuck in the system in the middle of nowhere.

Is that correct?

Absolutely, it's a significant limitation.

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

Thank you, Ms. Kwan.

On behalf of all the members of the committee, I want to thank all the witnesses for being here today, and for their contributions.

We'll suspend for a few minutes to prepare for the second panel.

8:15 p.m.

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

Thank you very much, Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.

We'll now go to Ms. Kwan, for six minutes, please.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you very much to the panellists. Those were exceptional presentations from all of you.

In terms of helping Afghans get to safety, we've heard from the previous panel and other witnesses that one of the key barriers is the fact that the Canadian government requires refugee determination from the UNHCR, and that is impossible for people to get, because there are no UNHCR offices operating there.

Would you support the call for the government to waive the refugee determination requirement for Afghans?

I will go to Ms. Barr first, but I'd like to have all the witnesses answer this question.

Heather Barr
Associate Women’s Rights Director, Human Rights Watch

Absolutely. I went through this process myself, trying to assist one particular family and trying to get help from UNHCR here in Islamabad. You go to the website, and it says you can't come to its office without an appointment. To get an appointment, you have to call a particular number. I called that number 29 times. Most of the time, it just rang and no one answered. Three times someone answered, and then hung up on me.

I'm a privileged white American lawyer who works for an NGO, so I tweeted about it, and somebody sent me a phone number of a friend who works at UNHCR. I was able to get an appointment that way, but that's not a route available to Afghans who come here and don't necessarily speak English or Urdu, and can't get a SIM card if they don't have a valid visa. It's impossible.

Another friend of mine was similarly trying to help a family get to the UNHCR, so they could register. She said she was calling the same number, and she got through the 258th time she called. That's a completely unworkable system that's set up to stop people from accessing it.

Absolutely, Canada should waive that requirement.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

Thank you.

Ms. Samar, I would ask you the same question.

Sima Samar
Former Chairperson, Afghanistan Independent Human Rights Commission, As an Individual

I fully agree with Ms. Barr. I think the other solution would be to have more staff for UNHCR in those countries where we have a lot of refugees, if the first one is not possible. But I think I'll go for the first part—that they waive that. Really, it's the staff of the human rights commission and well-known human rights defenders who are still in the country and taking a lot of risk, unfortunately. Some people who have not been at risk have already been evacuated.

There should be a very honest and thorough kind of program run by Canada or any other countries that are really trying to help.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

Thank you.

I think young women are more at risk—that is very clear—and the minority groups, which are facing challenges and attacks every day.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

Thank you.

Go ahead, Ms. Armstrong.

Sally Armstrong
Journalist, As an Individual

I could tell the same story. It began in August. You'd be getting a hundred requests a day. That went on all the way to October. People were asking, begging. You'd be working with journalists for human rights, working with the military people, trying to get people out.

It is simply not good enough. We can do better than this. The idea of.... Let them get here, or even get to a lily-pad country, and sort out the biometrics later. That's a better way to proceed, but I still say that we need to go to IRCC and find out what's wrong. Something's wrong.

I have all their documents. I have all these letters. It's just not acceptable.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

Well, part of the problem, as I understand it, is this. People send in to the special number or email that the government has provided to them, and unless you fall into the categories of what the government wants to target, you won't actually get a response. Even in cases of human rights advocates and activists, they are not getting a response.

We just heard from a previous panel about two families that I'm trying to assist. I've sent letters to both the Minister of Foreign Affairs and the Minister of Immigration. I have not gotten a response.

So here's the problem: The government is not responding to these individuals. They're not getting a file number. Sometimes you get a response that says, “I can't help you with those families, because there are no file numbers.” Well, they can't get a file number because IRCC won't respond to them. We're walking around in a giant circle, getting nowhere.

Maybe I can start with you, Ms. Armstrong. Is that the problem that you're experiencing?

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

Thank you.

You know, I don't like knocking my.... I'm very proud of this country. This does not make me proud. Why don't we fix the problem? It's wrong. We need to fix it.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

Go ahead, Ms. Barr.

I don't know the details around how the Canadian system works, but I want to say that there's something extremely arbitrary about who got out and who didn't.

As Dr. Samar said, many high-profile human rights activists are still trapped in the country. It's just because they decided not to go to the airport in late August, or they tried to go to the airport and they couldn't get into the airport. They thought, “Let me give it a bit of time and see what happens.” They thought, “I'm safer hiding in my house. I'll try to go in a few weeks.”

We now know that for many people, that was the only opportunity, and they missed it—

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

Ms. Barr, I'm sorry. I'm going to interject here. I have only 30 seconds left. I want to ask you a very direct question, because you're in Pakistan right now.

The government says that people should get to a third country, but people can't get out of Afghanistan to Pakistan. What if the government actually had resources available in Pakistan to help Afghans get out to Pakistan? Would that be an option?

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

Please make it a quick response.

There's definitely a need for much more support here. That would have to be negotiated with the Pakistan government, which might be challenging, but it's certainly worth a try.

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

Thank you, Ms. Kwan.

Without wasting any more time, we will go to Mr. Redekopp for three minutes, and Ms. Damoff for three minutes. Then we will go to Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe for a minute and a half, and Ms. Kwan for a minute and a half.

8:30 p.m.

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

We'll move on to Ms. Kwan for 90 seconds.

Please go ahead.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'll ask this in my last minute and a half.

It's true that we can't get everyone out, but certainly we can try to get some people out, particularly those who are so highly targeted that they are on a list to be hunted down.

One thing I think Canada can do to bring more people to safety is to extend the family reunification process for extended family sponsorship. This is something that the Canadian government has done for Ukrainians, but they have not applied that to Afghanistan.

I'd like to get comments from the witnesses on whether or not they think the Canadian government should extend this special immigration measure to Afghans.

Sima Samar
Former Chairperson, Afghanistan Independent Human Rights Commission, As an Individual

Of course. We're lobbying for it, from my point of view.

Yes, absolutely. I think the contrast between how Ukrainians and Afghans have been treated has been very painful and difficult to explain, except with reference to racism and Islamophobia.

I agree. Why wouldn't we do that? With Ukraine and Afghanistan, it is the classic good versus evil story, and heaven knows evil must not win.

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

Thank you very much, Ms. Kwan. Your 90 seconds are up.

I want to thank Ms. Armstrong, Ms. Barr and Dr. Samar for the work they do to make vulnerable humans' lives better. On behalf of the committee members, thank you very much for your input to the committee. All the best to you.

Now we'll suspend for a few minutes to prepare for the third and last panel.

9:10 p.m.

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

Thank you very much, Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.

We'll go to Ms. Kwan for six minutes, please.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you so much to our witnesses for their presentations and knowledge of what's going on there.

I'd like to go first to Ms. Rezayee. You indicated that if the Canadian government provided a temporary residence permit to Afghans, they would be able to get to a third country and then come to Canada. Is that correct?

Friba Rezayee
Founder and Executive Director, Women Leaders of Tomorrow

Yes, that is correct, Ms. Kwan.

As I mentioned previously, all we need is those solid, exclusive visas. There are so many Afghan families and Afghan athletes who don't even need to be on the IRCC flight. They could even arrange their flights themselves. All they need is those temporary residence visas—or any travel document, any permission, that allows them to come and seek refuge in Canada so they can be alive.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

The athletes you've talked about, the women you've talked about, for whom applications have been submitted but are sitting idle in IRCC system, when did they apply?

We applied for their applications in August of last year. As soon as the government collapsed, we started to contact the government, because we knew what was coming and we needed to reach out to the Canadian government as soon as possible. Their applications are still pending.

We have received a confirmation from IRCC that they have the list of our volleyball team, but they're not doing anything about it. They probably use it as a souvenir—I'm sorry, but they're not doing anything about it. They confirmed that they have the list. They have the names of our volleyball team.

My question is, when can they ensure that the volleyball team will be safely evacuated to Canada?

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

Have they been given file numbers?

No, absolutely not.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

So they're just sitting there.

They have the received the list. They're just sitting at the IRCC office.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

All right. Thank you.

I'd like to go to Mr. Dilsoz, please.

It's my understanding that you've also submitted a long list of individuals, of Afghans who need to get to safety. Did any of them receive a file number from the government or a response from the government?

They received only a confirmation. It was an automated confirmation. They haven't received anything, zero response.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

When was the application or the contact made with the IRCC?

I have many people on my list. Some of them started from August 15 or 16, and onwards. The dates are different.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

Okay, but none of them has received a response.

To the question around being able to leave Afghanistan and then get to a third country if they were given a travel visa or temporary resident permit from the Canadian government, would you agree that if that was done, Afghans would be able to get to a third country? It would be fraught with risks, and I'm not trying to minimize that, but would they have some capacity to do that? Or is that a reason for the government to then say, well, they can't even get to a third country, so there's no reason we should process their applications?

For some of these individuals, the IRCC suggested to me that if they go to a third country they would be able to help them. A few of them left Afghanistan. I can say some are journalists. One of them is a very well-known anchor, but none of them received any type of help or response. When they applied to UNHCR, as suggested to us by IRCC, the waiting list to meet with UNHCR is months long.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

Thank you.

Aside from the government needing to waive the refugee determination requirement, another thing that's a roadblock for Afghans to get to safety is the fact that the government requires them to be in a third country. I think that's why they're not processing their applications.

To all the witnesses, would you say that what the government must do at this point in time is to change that immigration requirement and to say that Afghans do not need to be in a third country in order to make their application?

I will start with Ms. Frogh, who has not spoken yet.

Wazhma Frogh
Founder, Women & Peace Studies Organization – Afghanistan

Yes, absolutely.

If, for example, they are given a travel authorization.... Many of my colleagues received travel authorizations during the August evacuation. If that could be provided, or temporary permits, they will arrange somehow, with all the risks, to go, or maybe even to go from Afghanistan to another country. That is one step towards addressing it.

In August and September, my organization submitted...45 women who have been working with the Canadian military in Afghanistan, who have implemented Canada fund projects with Canada's embassy. None of those women have made it to Canada, and we have not heard a word from them. Even Canada's ambassadors have been involved. They were contacting IRCC on our behalf, but there has been nothing yet.

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

Thank you very much, Ms. Kwan.

We'll go to the second round, with three minutes for Ms. Findlay, three minutes for Ms. Damoff, 90 seconds for Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe and 90 seconds for Ms. Kwan.

We'll start with Ms. Findlay. Please go ahead.

9:25 p.m.

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

We will go to Ms. Kwan for a minute and a half, please.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

Thank you.

I want to go back to the last question, because one of the huge roadblocks for people to get out is the immigration measure that requires people to be already in a third country. Without the temporary travel permit, they cannot get to a third country.

My question then, for Ms. Rezayee and then Mr. Dilsoz, is this: Should the government change the special immigration measure that requires Afghans to be in a third country in order to access immigration supports?

Wadood Dilsoz
Director, Afghan Community Vancouver

Absolutely, it has to be changed.

As we speak right now, someone is being tortured or someone is being killed. This is unfortunate. I think we have to change these measures.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

Ms. Rezayee.

Absolutely. What we're asking of the Canadian government is doable and achievable.

Please remove the third country requirement, as well as the documents from UNHCR. Our female athletes are in Islamabad at the moment, but they can't have any documents from UNHCR in order to qualify for the IRCC application.

Our need is very basic and also very doable.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

Thank you.

Very quickly, you mentioned the students. If they apply for a student visa from Afghanistan, they will be rejected because IRCC says that it doesn't believe they will return to their home country.

What do you suggest that the government should do with respect to that?

Currently, of the students coming to Canada, half are staying in Canada. They don't leave. They work here and they continue living here, so it's not the case that—

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

Ms. Kwan, that was your two minutes.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

I'm sorry about that.

Can I get the witnesses to submit their answers to me for that question? They didn't get a chance to answer.

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

Sure.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

If they could do that, it would be much appreciated.

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

Thank you very much, Ms. Kwan.

On behalf of the committee members, I want to thank the witnesses for the work they do in the lives of the most vulnerable and for sharing their thoughts with us today. I appreciate that. I wish you all the best.

Also on behalf of all members, I would like to thank the interpreters for staying for three long hours. I know it's not easy, particularly with the accents of people like myself.

I also want to thank the technical and support staff, as well as the clerk, the analysts and the staff from the members' offices.

It's work well done. Thank you.

The meeting is adjourned.

https://openparliament.ca/committees/afghanistan-s/44-1/7/the-chair-13/

Latest posts

CIMM#115: Pension Transferability and Access to Mandatory Provident Fund (MPF), and Delays in Permanent Residence and Visas for Hong Kongers Recent Reforms to the International Student Program

James McNamee, Director General, Family and Social Immigration Branch, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
I would say that's generally the case. If the work permit they obtained was originally connected to the public policy, that's correct. I don't know if that's the situation in all cases. In some cases, applicants may have had an LMIA-based work permit to begin with.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC, NDP
That's right. However, under the special immigration measure, the LMIA is not required. I have a list of applicants in those circumstances. Their work permit renewal application was rejected. They were asked to submit an LMIA, which makes no sense. I want to flag that as a deep concern now emerging for people whose open work permits are being rejected as they wait for their permanent resident status. At this rate, given the immigration levels plan numbers and the processing delays happening, and with the number of applicants in place, you can imagine that it's going to take something like eight years to get through the backlog of people getting their PR status. This means that if they are trying to get their pension, they will not be able to do so for eight years, because they are required to provide proof of permanent residence.
I want to flag this as a major concern. I hope the department will take action to fix the error being applied to applicants whose open work permits are being rejected under this stream. Can I get a confirmation from officials that this will be undertaken?

James McNamee, Director General, Family and Social Immigration Branch, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Yes, that issue has been raised with the department already, and we're looking into it to see what exactly happened in those situations.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC, NDP
Okay. Officials are aware of it, and yet it's still happening. I have cases coming to me that are happening. I'm about to prepare a giant pile of this stuff for the minister, so I hope the officials will fix that. The other thing related to the pension, of course, is lengthy delays for people to get their permanent status. Based on the immigration levels plan and the number of applicants in place, is it the officials' anticipation that it will take about eight years to get those applications processed?

James McNamee, Director General, Family and Social Immigration Branch, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
We have looked at that possibility. Certainly, it will take longer than we had previously indicated to the committee. I would note that the first year of the levels plan is the fixed year. The years that follow, in this case, 2026 and 2027, are flexible. There are opportunities to adjust those numbers in the future, and that could affect that timeline. It's hard to say whether eight years will be the timeline, but it will be longer than had been originally predicted because the numbers have gone down.

CIMM#114: Recent Reforms to the International Student Program

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
Aside from looking at patterns of potential violators—the groups and organizations taking advantage of students with these fraudulent letters of acceptance—will you be including in the analysis what types of institutions are being utilized for these fraudulent letters? In other words, is it private institutions versus public institutions, colleges versus universities and so on? Will that be part of the analysis?

Bronwyn May, Director General, International Students Branch, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
It's not always the case that a letter originates from an institution. We would need to look at various possible sources.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
Maybe I can reframe that.
Obviously, as these are fraudulent letters of acceptance, they wouldn't be issued by the institutions. However, regarding the list of institutions being used for the purpose of these fraudulent letters, I would be interested in obtaining information to determine what percentage are private institutions and public institutions, how many of them are colleges, how many of them are universities and so on. That will tell us very specific information that I think is important when trying to tackle fraudulent activities.

Bronwyn May, Director General, International Students Branch, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
I completely agree. That's a very important line of analysis.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
I will make the further request to make sure you share this information with the committee. I'll argue that this information should not be kept secret. It should be public and transparent—shared with all Canadians—so that we're aware of what the landscape is and of how international students are being taken advantage of. With respect to that analysis, will there be information and data on what countries are being targeted?

Click to read the full discussion from the Committee meeting

CIMM#113: Pension Transferability and Access to Mandatory Provident Fund (MPF), and Delays in Permanent Residence and Visas for Hong Kongers

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
All right. Thank you.
Hence, we have this problem. You have the Canadian government, which created this lifeboat scheme for Hong Kongers who are fleeing persecution in Hong Kong as a result of the national security law. The government, in its wisdom or lack thereof, created this lifeboat scheme that only provides for temporary residence by way of a work permit or a study permit. Then these people have to go to the queue to make an application for permanent residence, and we know that there is a huge backlog and delay in processing.
In the beginning, there was swift action, but as time has passed, it's been lengthened by way of the delay, to the point where the former minister even made an announcement to further extend people's work permits and study permits for another three years. That is to say, a person could be here for six years—as long as six years—under this current scheme without getting permanent residence. This is because the minister anticipated that people would not be able to swiftly get their permanent resident status. That is the reality.
As a result of that, people are not able to provide proof of permanent residence, because the application is in process. To make it even worse, the government—the minister—just made an announcement about the levels plan, cutting levels to the tune of 105,000 permanent resident status applications.
You can imagine how long the wait-list is for Hong Kongers as they continue to wait. Now, these Hong Kongers have zero intention of returning to Hong Kong, because they know that they would be persecuted if they did. People know that. I think the Canadian government knows that.
This is my question, then, to you as the manager of their pension, which, because of this rule, they're unable to access: Would your organization be willing to write to the regulator to ask for consideration for these applicants who are in a prolonged period of waiting for permanent resident status, to ask that their declaration indicating that they do not intend to return to Hong Kong be accepted as proof that they intend to leave Hong Kong permanently so that they can access their pensions? Is that something that your organization would consider doing?

Maryscott Greenwood, Global Head, Government Relations, The Manufacturers Life Insurance Company
I think I understand the question.
The basic premise of your question has to do with the period of time it takes for the Government of Canada to determine and provide permanent residency or citizenship. It seems to me that this is a function of the Government of Canada, as opposed to a regulated entity. That's how I would answer that.

Laura Hewitt, Senior Vice-President and Head, Global Government Affairs and Public Policy, Sun Life Financial Services of Canada Inc.
Yes. I would say that it's not within our authority to change the criteria.
However, our numbers show that once that permanent residency does come through, we're able to process the applications and approve Canadian permanent residents.

AFGN#7: Humanitarian Assistance for the Afghan people

Click to read the full discussion from the Committee meeting

https://openparliament.ca/committees/afghanistan-s/44-1/7/the-chair-13/

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CIMM#115: Pension Transferability and Access to Mandatory Provident Fund (MPF), and Delays in Permanent Residence and Visas for Hong Kongers Recent Reforms to the International Student Program

CIMM#114: Recent Reforms to the International Student Program

Click to read the full discussion from the Committee meeting

CIMM#113: Pension Transferability and Access to Mandatory Provident Fund (MPF), and Delays in Permanent Residence and Visas for Hong Kongers

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