AFGN#8: Humanitarian Assistance for the Afghan people

Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe, your time is up. We'll come back to this. Thank you kindly.

Now we'll go to Ms. Kwan for six minutes.

Please go ahead.

Mr. Chair, first of all, I appreciate the member's question.

I want to make it very clear that the current law, in terms of our support, has not prevented us...all the funding that we provided for the immediate emergency humanitarian needs of people, especially of children. We are working with partners who have experience and are able to deliver the appropriate support to the women and children who actually need it.

When it comes to this law, as I stated, it does pose a challenge for some organizations that are not able to meet the current parameters we have. The immediate need, right now, is for emergency humanitarian assistance, which we are able to deliver.

Mr. Chair, I'm glad the member raised this question. In fact, we have been looking at all of the various options and speaking to the organizations directly. I want to reiterate once again that all of the funding we're providing is getting to the people who need it.

I'd like to have Patrick Hill answer the legal question. He can provide greater detail if possible.

No. I'm sorry.

Mr. Chair, I'd like the minister to answer this question. How much longer do these organizations have to wait until he finds a resolution and puts it in operation?

Minister, I have to respect the member, because—

Mr. Chair, I'm happy to answer the question. I can't give a timeline. I wish I could.

Right now, as the Minister of International Development, I have to work within the current law that we have. One thing I can assure you, Mr. Chair, all of these members and the entire House is that we are not going to leave any stone unturned to provide support for the Afghan people. That's exactly what we have done. It's the reason we announced our funding very quickly—as early as last December—and we continually do so. We have been monitoring the situation on the ground for the immediate humanitarian needs.

However, to alleviate this, we have been actively working on options—

Thank you.

—with other departments, so that we can find a solution for this.

Thank you, Minister.

I have to say this, Mr. Chair. The minister can repeat the same answer over and over again, as he's turning pebble by pebble to turn each rock that he wants to overturn to find the answers.... It's been eight months.

I'm sorry. It is not good enough. The witnesses have said that the government does not feel the urgency of the situation. I think we see that right now from the minister's answers. They do not feel the urgency of the situation to act. Other countries have done it. Canada is the only nation that has not been able to resolve this issue.

Minister, you have 30 seconds to respond.

Mr. Chair, I respectfully completely disagree with the member's assertions there. To say that I don't feel the urgency.... I feel the urgency.

I've seen the famine that takes place on the ground. I've seen the positive impact that humanitarian aid can deliver. One thing that I can assure you is that we have acted and we'll continue to act very quickly to make sure that humanitarian support gets there, even as we work through this—

Just to—excuse me, Minister—

Thank you, Madame Kwan. You're out of time and—

To correct the minister, it's not me; it's the witnesses who have made that assertion.

—I will come back to you in the next....

Mr. Chong, please go ahead for your five-minute round. You'll be followed by Madame Zahid and Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe for two and a half minutes, and then Madame Kwan, we'll come to you after that for two and half minutes.

Mr. Chong, please go ahead for five minutes.

7:20 p.m.

 

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

Thank you very much, Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.

Now we will proceed to Madam Kwan for two and a half minutes, please.

Go ahead.

 

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Just to add to that, I've also written to the minister on the same issue. I've yet to receive a response. I think it was back in February when the letter was sent. I'd be happy to offer suggestions as to what the minister and government can do to address this urgent situation.

I'd like to ask the minister a question. Witnesses mentioned that there were flights that left in the evacuation process that were half empty. I wonder if the minister can provide this committee with information on the number of flights that left in the evacuation where seats were left unfilled and how many of those seats were on each of those flights. Can we have that information tabled to the committee, please?

 

Harjit S. Sajjan Vancouver South, BC
Liberal

Mr. Chair, one thing I can say is that, in times of crisis like this, a lot of the decision-making is to make sure that the people on the ground have the appropriate delegation authority to make those decisions. I also just want to take the opportunity to thank the Canadian Armed Forces for the tremendous work they did in extraordinarily difficult circumstances.

I'm not the minister of defence now, and those requests will have to flow through Minister Anand.

 

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

I'm trying to get the stats on how many flights were evacuated, how many seats were on those flights and how many of those seats were filled with people. Then from there, of the people who filled the seats, how many of them were Afghan nationals and how many of them were people who worked for the embassy or were Canadian workers? Can we have that information tabled for the committee?

 

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

Minister, you have 35 seconds to respond.

 

Harjit S. Sajjan Vancouver South, BC
Liberal

Mr. Chair, that information is held within the Ministry of Defence.

One thing I can say is that creating that air bridge was extremely important, that work that Canada did to bring that together. Our folks on the ground did amazing work to get many people out. I just want to take this opportunity again to commend them. Every single day, to be able to witness the tremendous work that they did—

 

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

Thank you, Minister.

 

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

Madam Kwan, your time is up.

We'll come back to the next round now. We have three minutes each. First I will go to Madam Findlay for three minutes, then Mr. El-Khoury for three minutes, and that will end the round.

 

7:55 p.m.

 

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

Thank you very much, Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.

Now we will go to Madame Kwan for six minutes.

 

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and thank you to all the officials.

My first question is for Mr. Thoppil.

With respect to Canada's diplomatic relationship with Pakistan, one of our goals, as you just indicated, is to help Afghans get to safety, particularly those who helped serve the Canadian military, and their extended family members. We've heard from witnesses in different places that extended families are not able to get to Canada safely. Some of them have made it to Pakistan, and they are unable, for example, to get their visa or their exit visa. Those are always the reasons, it seems, as to why they cannot get to Canada safely.

What work is being done, on a diplomatic level, for Canada to work with the Pakistani government to help Afghans get to Canada safely?

 

Paul Thoppil
Assistant Deputy Minister, Asia Pacific, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Mr. Chair, we have been working actively on the ground, through our diplomatic mission in Pakistan with the Pakistani officials and ministers, in terms of trying to have recognition of safe passage documents that have been provided to Afghans in order to cross such border crossings as the Torkham border gate. They have been very helpful throughout the crisis, at the height of the crisis acknowledging acceptance of certain documents, but as time has evolved, they have been a little bit more limiting in that.

Quite frankly, they have been very helpful to the extent that they can, given their large burden of hosting three million and not necessarily...acknowledging their concerns of being a draw for more.

 

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

Are you still able to do that work now? Are you still able to work with them and continue to bring Afghans to Canada?

 

Paul Thoppil
Assistant Deputy Minister, Asia Pacific, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

 

Quite frankly, given limited air routes out, there is an intermittent flow that happens through the Torkham border crossing gate between Afghanistan and Pakistan. As we acknowledge the 10,000 Afghans who came into our country...last week, since the fall of Afghanistan to the Taliban a lot of that traffic has come through the border. That is based on active discussions through officials as well as through ministerial discussions.

 

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

Is it possible to make arrangements for Canada to have evacuation flights leaving Pakistan to Canada?

LINKS & SHARING

AS SPOKEN

8 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Asia Pacific, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Paul Thoppil

At this juncture, the Taliban do not support charter flights for the evacuation of Afghans. They want their Kabul airport to resume normally scheduled commercial airline traffic. Therefore, there are limits to what like-minded countries, including Canada, can do in order to initiate evacuation charter flights.

 

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

What about evacuation charter flights from neighbouring countries?

 

Paul Thoppil
Assistant Deputy Minister, Asia Pacific, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

 

Where significant numbers have accumulated in terms of approved Afghans to be able to come to Canada, IRCC, to my knowledge, has been organizing passage for the Afghans to come. Again, I would acknowledge the 10,000 milestone that was achieved last week.

 

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

If Afghans were able to get from Afghanistan to, let's say, Pakistan.... I know of 300 families—former Afghan interpreters' extended family members—who are trying to get to safety and are unable to do so because IRCC has not processed their application. But other witnesses at this committee have said, “Leave that to us. We will get to a third country ourselves. We'll figure out how to do it.”

If that were to happen, where IRCC actually processes the applications and provides them with the necessary documentation, would your department be able to bring in evacuation flights to bring them out to Canada safely?

 

Paul Thoppil
Assistant Deputy Minister, Asia Pacific, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

 

I believe IRCC has the requisite authorities on its own in order to entertain that response back to Afghans who have been processed to come to Canada.

 

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

Canada is providing documentation to Ukrainians urgently. Can we not do the same for Afghans?

 

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

Mr. Thoppil, you have 10 seconds.

 

Paul Thoppil
Assistant Deputy Minister, Asia Pacific, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

 

I think that's a question that's best addressed to IRCC. Unfortunately, it's not within Global Affairs Canada's purview. I'm sorry.

 

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

Thank you very much, Madam Kwan. That was right on time.

We will now begin our second round. It will be Mr. Hallan for five minutes, Mr. El-Khoury for five minutes, Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe for two and a half minutes and Madam Kwan for two and a half minutes.

Mr. Hallan, go ahead, please. You have five minutes.

 

8:15 p.m.

 

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

Thank you very much, Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe. Your time is up.

Now we'll go to Madam Kwan for two and a half minutes. Please go ahead.

 

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

Thank you.

I'm interested in that question, too.

Mr. Thoppil, is it yes or no?

 

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

Mr. Thoppil, do you have the question or do you want Madam Kwan to repeat the question?

 

Paul Thoppil
Assistant Deputy Minister, Asia Pacific, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

 

I need to repeat the answer, unfortunately, which is there is still work being done by the civil service among many departments in order to formulate the best advice to the government.

 

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

Thank you. I don't mean to be rude. I have limited time. I don't need to hear the same answer over again. I want to move to another area, then.

We just heard from the ADM that it's up to the Minister of Immigrationto make the decision about evacuation flights in Pakistan, including determining whether or not to waive documentation requirements. When that was put to the minister, he then referred it back to other ministries, such as foreign affairs and others.

We have a situation where everybody is saying it's someone else's responsibility. A retired major, as a witness, said that someone has to take the lead to get Afghans safely to Canada.

Mr. Thoppil, could you advise if you have an opinion on who should be taking the lead? Is it immigration?

 

Paul Thoppil
Assistant Deputy Minister, Asia Pacific, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

 

IRCC has the mandate in terms of responsibilities for immigration into our country.

Thank you.

 

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

Thank you.

Well then, I will ask [Technical difficulty—Editor].

On the next one, I'd like to ask this question. Witnesses last week talked about needing to take a feminist approach and in particular for Canada to reach out to and work together with France, Germany and Sweden to step in where feminist foreign policy is required in this global situation.

Mr. Thoppil, is the ministry doing any work in reaching out to these other countries to take the lead and play a leadership role in taking a feminist approach to addressing the crisis in Afghanistan?

 

https://openparliament.ca/committees/afghanistan-s/44-1/8/jenny-kwan-4/