IN COMMITTEE - HUMA#55: Questioning the housing minister & CMHC CEO on national housing invitiative and housing benefit
House of Commons Debate
Human Resources Committee on Feb. 14th, 2023
Evidence of meeting #55 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session.
5:25 p.m.
Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP
Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to the minister and officials for being here.
Speaking of slowness, I have many issues. First off, and to set the record straight, the federal Liberal government cancelled the national affordable housing program in 1993. That was succeeded by the Conservatives gutting the dollars for housing. As a result, we lost housing altogether from the federal government. Consequently, we have a housing crisis, and it's been escalating. That's just to be clear.
I want to get very specific about the programs in the national housing initiative. There is the codevelopment fund. We already talked about what a disaster it is in terms of its rollout.
I want to raise this question with the Minister: If you look at the numbers, the distribution of about 100,000 units have gone out across the country. However, there are about 115,000 units that have received funding commitments, but the money has not yet rolled out. Why?
Ahmed Hussen York South—Weston, ON
Liberal
Liberal
The national housing coinvestment fund has been an amazing tool to help with affordable housing, and—
Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP
NDP
Could I just get a direct answer?
Ahmed Hussen York South—Weston, ON
Liberal
Liberal
I'm trying to. You are the one who said that this program has been a failure, and I'm trying to show you that it hasn't. Can I do that, Mr. Chair?
Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP
NDP
No, I'm asking the question—Mr. Chair, if I may—very specifically. Why has the funding that has been committed for projects not been rolled out?
Ahmed Hussen York South—Weston, ON
Liberal
Liberal
Which funding commitments are you talking about? We have so many programs that flow funding for affordable housing. I would like to answer your question but I—
Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP
NDP
If you were listening to my question, I'm talking about the codevelopment fund. Some 115,000 units have received funding commitments but have not received the funding for the non-profits. They're sitting there, and as we twiddle our thumbs, the cost is going up and those projects will become unviable. Why hasn't the funding flowed?
Ahmed Hussen York South—Weston, ON
Liberal
Liberal
No one is twiddling their thumbs. This is a very serious matter. I can show how successful this program has been. Of course there's always more to do, but I'll turn to Ms. Bowers for a more technical answer on the flow of the money.
Romy Bowers
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation
Thank you very much for that question.
We're halfway through the rollout of the coinvestment fund, and we have conditionally committed half the funding for the 110,000 units that are referred to here. We provide funding to proponents as the construction proceeds. To this date, the construction is completed on about 27,000 units and all the funding has been disbursed.
For all of the other programs, we provide funding, as the construction proceeds, in the form of many advances. During the period of COVID, there was a slowdown in construction activity, but CMHC is very committed to making sure that, as soon as a project advances or asks for it, the funds are provided. It's funding that's provided not all at once but during a gradual cycle as the building project comes to fruition.
I would just comment that, halfway through the program, we've committed half the funds and have achieved half the targets committed.
Thank you very much for that question.
We're halfway through the rollout of the coinvestment fund, and we have conditionally committed half the funding for the 110,000 units that are referred to here. We provide funding to proponents as the construction proceeds. To this date, the construction is completed on about 27,000 units and all the funding has been disbursed.
For all of the other programs, we provide funding, as the construction proceeds, in the form of many advances. During the period of COVID, there was a slowdown in construction activity, but CMHC is very committed to making sure that, as soon as a project advances or asks for it, the funds are provided. It's funding that's provided not all at once but during a gradual cycle as the building project comes to fruition.
I would just comment that, halfway through the program, we've committed half the funds and have achieved half the targets committed.
Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP
NDP
I can tell you that I'm talking to non-profit groups, and I'm sure there are other MPs who are talking to non-profit groups, and their projects are ready to roll out. They even have matching funds.
In the case of British Columbia, there is a project in the riding of my colleague Richard Cannings. There's a letter from the Lower Columbia Affordable Housing Society in South Okanagan—West Kootenay. They're ready to go. They got their commitment, but they can't get the funding. Lo and behold, what's happened? The government—CMHC, through to the minister—made a decision that, instead of getting an estimated up to $50,000 to $75,000 per unit, they're now limited to only getting $25,000 per unit. As the cost is escalating, these projects will become unviable.
Various colleagues asking for help with projects were all responded to on February 8 with different responses signed by the minister. I have one letter signed by the minister to my colleague Leah Gazan, regarding the situation in Winnipeg, telling people to go look to the coinvestment fund for funding. The people from the Lower Columbia Affordable Housing Society have been advised by CMHC that the money from the codevelopment fund has been depleted. There is no money to be had.
Back in November of last year, around the same time, I wrote to the minister about the codevelopment fund, asking about the $25,000 limitation—when that kicked in and who made that decision. I got a response on February 8 as well, signed by the minister, talking about everything except the answer to that question.
First off, I would dispute the notion that money is flowing when they're ready, because this project is ready. They're about to lose the funding. They're about to actually lose the project if they don't get the funding. This is the reality. They're ready to roll. The only ones holding them up happen to be CMHC on the codevelopment fund.
On the issue of the $25,000 limitation, who made that decision and when did it come into play?
Romy Bowers
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation
I can't comment on the specific project that's been mentioned here, but I'm very happy to take the details and follow up on the particular circumstances of that project.
With respect to the $25,000 limit, I recognize that it is challenging for non-profits to work with lower levels of contribution, but in some ways there has been such a demand for the contribution of funding that we've had to ration it to ensure that the contribution of funding gets to as many projects as possible.
The Chair Bobby Morrissey
Liberal
I can't comment on the specific project that's been mentioned here, but I'm very happy to take the details and follow up on the particular circumstances of that project.
With respect to the $25,000 limit, I recognize that it is challenging for non-profits to work with lower levels of contribution, but in some ways there has been such a demand for the contribution of funding that we've had to ration it to ensure that the contribution of funding gets to as many projects as possible.
The Chair Bobby Morrissey
Liberal
Thank you, Ms. Kwan.
Mr. Aitchison, you have five minutes.
Mr. Aitchison, you have five minutes.
5:45 pm
Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP
NDP
Thank you very much.
I want to turn to a different issue: the Canada housing benefit.
The Canada housing benefit is clear in that it is meant to target people with the lowest incomes. However, the government changed the criteria. On the government's own website in November 2020—and even as late as December 27—it did not say that people on social or rental assistance who are having their rent paid directly to the landlord would be excluded from this program. This was added, I think, around February 3. Consequently, people now applying are no longer eligible.
Why is the government excluding people on income assistance and disability from being eligible for the $500 housing benefit? When was this decision made, and by whom? Why was this only posted on the government's website in February? The overriding question is this: Who is this housing benefit for, when the government is intentionally excluding the lowest-income people? It's not that they aren't qualified because of their income. They're not qualified because their rent is paid directly to the landlord, as a result of the program they're in—it's usually income assistance.
Why is that?
Ahmed Hussen York South—Weston, ON
Liberal
Liberal
This program is crucial for helping almost two million Canadian renters with the cost of rent. This $500 top-up will help people. It's on top of the existing Canada housing benefit.
In terms of the income thresholds, they're intended to—
Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP
NDP
I'm sorry, but I'm going to interrupt you for a second.
It's not about the threshold. It's not in the legislation. It does not say that people on income assistance, or in provincial or territorial rental assistance programs—those having their rent paid directly to the landlord—would be disqualified from this program. It does not say that in the legislation. However, in or around February, the government changed the criteria and added that to the website.
How come that was put in there? Who made that decision?
Ahmed Hussen York South—Weston, ON
Liberal
Liberal
The eligibility criteria for this benefit is the same across the country. It is meant to ensure access to the benefit in each province and territory.
In terms of the particular nuance brought up by the member, I'm happy to have officials get back to her on that. However, I know the criteria were set up in consultation with folks to ensure equal access to—
Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP
NDP
Is the minister saying he didn't make that change?
The Chair Bobby Morrissey
Liberal
Liberal
Thank you, Ms. Kwan. That concludes your time.
Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP
NDP
Perhaps I can get the answer in writing from the minister.
The Chair Bobby Morrissey
Liberal
Liberal
That's fine. He can provide the answer.
Thank you, Ms. Kwan.
Thank you, Minister and departmental officials, for appearing.
Committee members, before we adjourn, we have the news release on the Black community study. Is it the wish of the committee to accept it? You all received it a couple of days ago. It's about the report being tabled in the House.
Some hon. members
Agreed.
The Chair Bobby Morrissey
Liberal
Liberal
Go ahead, Ms. Kwan.
Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP
NDP
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
On the questions I just asked—which the minister deferred to his officials—could we get the answer before the Friday meeting? I think it's very important we get that information.
The Chair Bobby Morrissey
Liberal
Liberal
The minister will provide the answer when he can.
Thank you, Minister.
Thank you, members.
I have approval. Seeing no dissent on the news release, the meeting is adjourned.
