CIMM#93: Closed Work Permits and Temporary Foreign Workers and Briefing on Recent Changes to International Student Policy and Plans for Future Measures

On the question around student housing, I absolutely think that it is essential for institutions and provinces do their part and I think that the federal government should show leadership and perhaps initiate a program wherein the federal government contributes a third of the funding, institutions provide a third of the funding, and the provinces and territories provide a third of the funding towards the creation of student housing, both for international students and domestic students. That way you can have a robust plan to address the housing needs of the students.

I'm going to park that for a minute and quickly get into the students who were subject to fraud. We have a situation in which students have now been cleared and found to be genuine by the task force, but they have not gotten their passports back yet. I don't know what the holdup is, and I wonder if the minister can comment on that.

Second, there are students who are still waiting to be evaluated by the task force, and the task force work can't proceed because they might be waiting for a date for the IRB to assess the question on their permit on whether or not it was genuine or whether or not there was misrepresentation. They are consequently in a situation in which people are just chasing their tails and they can't get to the task force.

On that question, will the minister agree that instead of making people go through that process with the IRB, the task force evaluation can move forward first so that they can be found to be either a genuine student or not a genuine student?

 

Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Feb. 28th, 2024
Evidence of meeting #93 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session

5:40 p.m.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Thank you to the minister and the officials for coming back to the committee again.

I must first begin by saying that while I appreciate the minister coming—I really do, since this is a motion I moved—I am disappointed. I need to put this on the record: The motion calling for the minister to come and speak about Gaza and Sudan is, in my mind, perhaps the most urgent situation. I had hoped the minister would come and speak to the committee on that issue first. That is not the case. I understand the minister will be returning in March to deal with this issue. Today we're dealing with international students. However, because of the urgency of the situation in Gaza, I had hoped to get some questions to the minister and officials with respect to that situation.

That said, regarding international students, I also have to put this on the record: Minister, when you made the announcement on the cap—this is in the backdrop of the media and others saying newcomers are to blame for the housing crisis—I think it did a disservice to international students in the way this announcement was cast in that context. I don't think that is the right message. I hope that is not your intention, but that is how it is perceived: that somehow newcomers—in this instance, international students—are to blame for the housing crisis.

I can talk all day long about where the housing crisis came from, which is, of course, 30 years of successive Liberal and Conservative governments relying on the private sector to deliver the housing Canadians need and can afford. That's a conversation for another day.

I want to touch on international students, in particular unintended consequences.

In the announcement that came about with the cap—which I do not agree with—was the notion that applicants need to demonstrate financial resources of $20,000 per year. That's a shift. There are unintended consequences, because there are students who come in on a scholarship, for example. The way this is calculated or dealt with means they may not be able to meet this new requirement now. Many of those who come on a scholarship obviously may well have some financial constraints. Those scholarships enable them to come and enhance their education and have those opportunities.

In fact, my colleague Randall Garrison, the member for Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, wrote to the minister about Pearson College with respect to scholarships for students. He has not received a response yet from the minister on this letter. That was dated January 17, 2024. It asked whether or not IRCC officials would consider the total value of the scholarship, room and board provided by Pearson College to the students as a consideration towards that $25,000 requirement.

Marc Miller Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC
Liberal

I can answer this specific question and speak a little more generally, MP Kwan.

We're willing to look at it. I have not personally seen that letter. Perhaps send it to my P9 afterward and I can talk to officials about it.

The increase in the number was, in the grand scheme of things, rather modest. We were at half of what our competitors are requesting students provide as part of their solvency. We have clearly seen students who do not have the means to support themselves. This is a choice. I think it's a very important choice, but it leaves students less exploited, given that they perhaps have more financial capacity to live and hopefully thrive in Canada.

I acknowledge your point on Sudan and Gaza. I think that if I were appearing today on Gaza, I would have no good news for you. I don't. I hope to have better news when we appear in three weeks, but there are no guarantees on that. I guess that's an aside, because we're not dealing with that today, but it's not an attempt to dodge anything. I think these are very important issues generally, and we should have the opportunity to deal with them. My presence, obviously, is required at times.

I do not mean to stigmatize international students. In fact, if you look at it in economic terms, a large cohort of bright, young and motivated people with financial capacity are in Canada, where our demographic curve was trending in the wrong direction. The Bank of Canada has highlighted our singular ability to make that curve a little younger in the workforce, and this is notionally a cohort of trained and potentially integrated people whom we could leverage because of their talent and work ethic.

It's notionally a good idea, but because of real challenges in the volumes that have been spiking, it was very important for Canada to pump the brakes.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

I'll just quickly say, on the question around Gaza, that I appreciate that maybe the minister is hopefully going to come back with better news, but there are a lot of questions that need to be answered. Each passing minute, people's lives are in jeopardy. I just want to say that. They may not have the luxury of three weeks. I just need to put that on the record.

On the issue around international students, it was a disappointment to me that the former minister of immigration left and shortly after that he left became the minister of housing. It was almost as though he immediately turned his back on the immigration file and started to point fingers. It is not helpful and it is not useful, and I am very disappointed with respect to that.

Setting that aside for a minute, I will definitely get this letter to the minister—

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

Your time is up, Madam. Please ask the last question.

Marc Miller Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC
Liberal

Quite frankly, Sean Fraser is very passionate about his former file. I don't blame him for that. He had a lot of very important views that he communicated to me. He helped convince me to put in place these measures and to have a more robust system that we can be a little more proud of. He's one of my closest colleagues in cabinet, and we have some very important discussions on making sure we are creating and bolstering a system that we can all be proud of.

I take note of your comments, but when it comes Sean's character, I think his passion for this file is one that I share.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

He may be passionate, but he's not helpful when he turns around and blames newcomers.

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

Thank you very much, Minister. Thank you, Madam Kwan.

We will now go to Mr. Berthold for five minutes. Please go ahead.

 

6 p.m.

 

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

We were talking about unintended consequences from the cap and also the requirement for $20,000 in people's personal accounts.

When the minister made this decision and announced this cap, did the department undertake any evaluation of what those unintended consequences might be?

Marc Miller Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC
Liberal

It's an excellent question. It was one of my largest preoccupations.

First of all, doubling it was a no-brainer. We were just wildly under what internationally comparable countries had in place.

At the same time, when the recommendation came to me, I asked the department what we were going to do to make sure people from west Africa, for example, would not be unduly prejudiced by this type of decision. We are looking at a number of solutions to make sure people like these were not impacted by that decision.

It is no surprise that the diversity of the countries in question is rather limited. The main source country is one that, when you compare it to other countries in terms of the global middle class, does have an availability to mobilize money more easily than do other countries in which there are equally excellent students.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I wonder if the minister can table to this committee the documentation that officials provided to him with respect to the unintended consequences of this policy, not just on the $20,000 issue but also on the other components within this announcement.

Marc Miller Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC
Liberal

As the minister, I won't undertake to do it personally, but if the committee decides to so vote, we can look at that.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

All right. In that case, I will move a motion to ask the minister to table documents in relation to unintended consequences with relation to the international student announcement.

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

Your motion is in order.

We can stop the watch at two and a half minutes and we will start the debate on that motion.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

I just want to get the documents.

 

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

Mr. Redekopp, go ahead.

Brad Redekopp Saskatoon West, SK
Conservative

Let's vote.

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

If there's no discussion, we'll go to a vote.

Mr. Clerk, could you call the vote, please?

Salma Zahid Scarborough Centre, ON
Liberal

Can you please clarify what we are voting on?

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

There is a motion on the floor by Madam Kwan. She is asking for certain documents to be tabled by the minister, and the minister has said that if it is the will of the committee....

Madam Kwan, do you want to read the motion once more?

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

I don't have it in writing. I just said the words, but it is along these lines: I'm asking for the minister to table with the committee documents from his department with regard to unintended consequences in relation to the international student announcement.

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

Thank you.

Mr. Clerk, please call the vote.

(Motion agreed to: 11 yeas; 0 nays [See Minutes of Proceedings])

Madam Kwan, you have 35 seconds. Please go ahead.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

Thank you very much. I appreciate that and I'll look forward to those documents.

The reason I asked for that information is that I wanted to see what work is going to be undertaken and needs to be undertaken to address this issue. I think those unintended consequences are serious.

With respect to that, there's another piece that is another unintended consequence. It is on the issue of students who are fleeing persecution, such as those from Afghanistan and other places. I know that there is a commitment from the government to facilitate education opportunities to them. This cap would mean that they would also be impacted.

Is that something the minister would take into consideration to address, so that those students would not be negatively impacted?

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

Give a brief answer, because the time is up.

Marc Miller Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC
Liberal

Yes, that's absolutely one of the examples.

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

Thank you very much.

With that, I'm going to suspend the meeting.

It is my understanding that the minister is here until 6:15. Is that correct, Minister, or can you stay a bit longer?

Marc Miller Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC
Liberal

I'm okay.

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

With that, then I will suspend the meeting and we will come back.

Once we come back, I want you to think about this: The honourable member from the Green Party had asked for unanimous consent to have one question of two minutes. Is there unanimous consent?

Go ahead, Madam Kwan.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

I just have a point of clarification.

The minister was meant to be here for 90 minutes. We were interrupted and started at least half an hour late because of votes. We're now interrupted again because of votes. I would have anticipated that with the 90-minute rotation, I would have had another opportunity with another rotation with the minister.

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

Once the meeting is suspended, we can talk about it and figure it out if you want.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

Yes, I would like to have another rotation, because I have more questions for the minister.

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

Now my question to the membership is this: As soon as we come back, is there unanimous consent for the honourable member from the Green Party to have two minutes?

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

No, I'm sorry. We can't jump to having the Greens take a round without actually sorting out committee members getting their full round.

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal

Liberal

Sure. Okay.

I'm going to suspend the meeting. We'll come back.

 

6:30 p.m.

 

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC

NDP

On the question around student housing, I absolutely think that it is essential for institutions and provinces do their part and I think that the federal government should show leadership and perhaps initiate a program wherein the federal government contributes a third of the funding, institutions provide a third of the funding, and the provinces and territories provide a third of the funding towards the creation of student housing, both for international students and domestic students. That way you can have a robust plan to address the housing needs of the students.

I'm going to park that for a minute and quickly get into the students who were subject to fraud. We have a situation in which students have now been cleared and found to be genuine by the task force, but they have not gotten their passports back yet. I don't know what the holdup is, and I wonder if the minister can comment on that.

Second, there are students who are still waiting to be evaluated by the task force, and the task force work can't proceed because they might be waiting for a date for the IRB to assess the question on their permit on whether or not it was genuine or whether or not there was misrepresentation. They are consequently in a situation in which people are just chasing their tails and they can't get to the task force.

On that question, will the minister agree that instead of making people go through that process with the IRB, the task force evaluation can move forward first so that they can be found to be either a genuine student or not a genuine student?

Marc Miller Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC

Liberal

You've asked me a lot of questions in two and a half minutes. You'd make a great reporter. You're already a great MP. There were a lot of shotgun questions.

I want to give you a proper and complete update on that task force. We can get to the bottom of the passport issue, but I have an update for you that I can provide, either as a sidebar or more officially through channels.

I take your point on the passport issues, and we will follow up on that. I don't have an update for you on that.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

What about the whole idea of doing the task force work first, instead of making the student go through the IRB assessment on misrepresentation? As long as the task force has not finished its work and it is not known whether they are genuine or not, making them go through the other process means they're just going to spin their tail, because that misrepresentation piece is always going to be on their file.

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal

Liberal

The time is up.

Marc Miller Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC
Liberal

MP Kwan, I won't do justice to your question by answering it really quickly, but we can follow up on that.

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal

Liberal

Thank you very much, Minister, for staying late with us today to accommodate the honourable members. Thank you for being accessible to this committee. Hopefully you will stay accessible.

Thank you to you and your deputy ministers and assistant deputy ministers.

The meeting is adjourned.

 

https://openparliament.ca/committees/immigration/44-1/93/jenny-kwan-1/

Latest posts

CIMM#115: Pension Transferability and Access to Mandatory Provident Fund (MPF), and Delays in Permanent Residence and Visas for Hong Kongers Recent Reforms to the International Student Program

James McNamee, Director General, Family and Social Immigration Branch, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
I would say that's generally the case. If the work permit they obtained was originally connected to the public policy, that's correct. I don't know if that's the situation in all cases. In some cases, applicants may have had an LMIA-based work permit to begin with.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC, NDP
That's right. However, under the special immigration measure, the LMIA is not required.  I have a list of applicants in those circumstances. Their work permit renewal application was rejected. They were asked to submit an LMIA, which makes no sense. I want to flag that as a deep concern now emerging for people whose open work permits are being rejected as they wait for their permanent resident status. At this rate, given the immigration levels plan numbers and the processing delays happening, and with the number of applicants in place, you can imagine that it's going to take something like eight years to get through the backlog of people getting their PR status. This means that if they are trying to get their pension, they will not be able to do so for eight years, because they are required to provide proof of permanent residence.
I want to flag this as a major concern. I hope the department will take action to fix the error being applied to applicants whose open work permits are being rejected under this stream.  Can I get a confirmation from officials that this will be undertaken?

James McNamee, Director General, Family and Social Immigration Branch, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Yes, that issue has been raised with the department already, and we're looking into it to see what exactly happened in those situations.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC, NDP
Okay. Officials are aware of it, and yet it's still happening.  I have cases coming to me that are happening. I'm about to prepare a giant pile of this stuff for the minister, so I hope the officials will fix that.  The other thing related to the pension, of course, is lengthy delays for people to get their permanent status.  Based on the immigration levels plan and the number of applicants in place, is it the officials' anticipation that it will take about eight years to get those applications processed?

James McNamee, Director General, Family and Social Immigration Branch, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
We have looked at that possibility. Certainly, it will take longer than we had previously indicated to the committee. I would note that the first year of the levels plan is the fixed year. The years that follow, in this case, 2026 and 2027, are flexible. There are opportunities to adjust those numbers in the future, and that could affect that timeline. It's hard to say whether eight years will be the timeline, but it will be longer than had been originally predicted because the numbers have gone down.

CIMM#114: Recent Reforms to the International Student Program

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
Aside from looking at patterns of potential violators—the groups and organizations taking advantage of students with these fraudulent letters of acceptance—will you be including in the analysis what types of institutions are being utilized for these fraudulent letters? In other words, is it private institutions versus public institutions, colleges versus universities and so on? Will that be part of the analysis?

Bronwyn MayDirector General, International Students Branch, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
It's not always the case that a letter originates from an institution. We would need to look at various possible sources.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
Maybe I can reframe that.
Obviously, as these are fraudulent letters of acceptance, they wouldn't be issued by the institutions. However, regarding the list of institutions being used for the purpose of these fraudulent letters, I would be interested in obtaining information to determine what percentage are private institutions and public institutions, how many of them are colleges, how many of them are universities and so on. That will tell us very specific information that I think is important when trying to tackle fraudulent activities.

Bronwyn May, Director General, International Students Branch, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
I completely agree. That's a very important line of analysis.

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
I will make the further request to make sure you share this information with the committee. I'll argue that this information should not be kept secret. It should be public and transparent—shared with all Canadians—so that we're aware of what the landscape is and of how international students are being taken advantage of. With respect to that analysis, will there be information and data on what countries are being targeted?

Click to read the full discussion from the Committee meeting

CIMM#113: Pension Transferability and Access to Mandatory Provident Fund (MPF), and Delays in Permanent Residence and Visas for Hong Kongers

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
All right. Thank you.
Hence, we have this problem. You have the Canadian government, which created this lifeboat scheme for Hong Kongers who are fleeing persecution in Hong Kong as a result of the national security law. The government, in its wisdom or lack thereof, created this lifeboat scheme that only provides for temporary residence by way of a work permit or a study permit. Then these people have to go to the queue to make an application for permanent residence, and we know that there is a huge backlog and delay in processing.
In the beginning, there was swift action, but as time has passed, it's been lengthened by way of the delay, to the point where the former minister even made an announcement to further extend people's work permits and study permits for another three years. That is to say, a person could be here for six years—as long as six years—under this current scheme without getting permanent residence. This is because the minister anticipated that people would not be able to swiftly get their permanent resident status. That is the reality.
As a result of that, people are not able to provide proof of permanent residence, because the application is in process. To make it even worse, the government—the minister—just made an announcement about the levels plan, cutting levels to the tune of 105,000 permanent resident status applications.
You can imagine how long the wait-list is for Hong Kongers as they continue to wait. Now, these Hong Kongers have zero intention of returning to Hong Kong, because they know that they would be persecuted if they did. People know that. I think the Canadian government knows that.
This is my question, then, to you as the manager of their pension, which, because of this rule, they're unable to access: Would your organization be willing to write to the regulator to ask for consideration for these applicants who are in a prolonged period of waiting for permanent resident status, to ask that their declaration indicating that they do not intend to return to Hong Kong be accepted as proof that they intend to leave Hong Kong permanently so that they can access their pensions? Is that something that your organization would consider doing?

Maryscott GreenwoodGlobal Head, Government Relations, The Manufacturers Life Insurance Company
I think I understand the question.
The basic premise of your question has to do with the period of time it takes for the Government of Canada to determine and provide permanent residency or citizenship. It seems to me that this is a function of the Government of Canada, as opposed to a regulated entity. That's how I would answer that.

Laura HewittSenior Vice-President and Head, Global Government Affairs and Public Policy, Sun Life Financial Services of Canada Inc.
Yes. I would say that it's not within our authority to change the criteria.
However, our numbers show that once that permanent residency does come through, we're able to process the applications and approve Canadian permanent residents.

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