CIMM#93: Closed Work Permits and Temporary Foreign Workers and Briefing on Recent Changes to International Student Policy and Plans for Future Measures

On the question around student housing, I absolutely think that it is essential for institutions and provinces do their part and I think that the federal government should show leadership and perhaps initiate a program wherein the federal government contributes a third of the funding, institutions provide a third of the funding, and the provinces and territories provide a third of the funding towards the creation of student housing, both for international students and domestic students. That way you can have a robust plan to address the housing needs of the students.

I'm going to park that for a minute and quickly get into the students who were subject to fraud. We have a situation in which students have now been cleared and found to be genuine by the task force, but they have not gotten their passports back yet. I don't know what the holdup is, and I wonder if the minister can comment on that.

Second, there are students who are still waiting to be evaluated by the task force, and the task force work can't proceed because they might be waiting for a date for the IRB to assess the question on their permit on whether or not it was genuine or whether or not there was misrepresentation. They are consequently in a situation in which people are just chasing their tails and they can't get to the task force.

On that question, will the minister agree that instead of making people go through that process with the IRB, the task force evaluation can move forward first so that they can be found to be either a genuine student or not a genuine student?

 

Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Feb. 28th, 2024
Evidence of meeting #93 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session

5:40 p.m.

 

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Thank you to the minister and the officials for coming back to the committee again.

I must first begin by saying that while I appreciate the minister coming—I really do, since this is a motion I moved—I am disappointed. I need to put this on the record: The motion calling for the minister to come and speak about Gaza and Sudan is, in my mind, perhaps the most urgent situation. I had hoped the minister would come and speak to the committee on that issue first. That is not the case. I understand the minister will be returning in March to deal with this issue. Today we're dealing with international students. However, because of the urgency of the situation in Gaza, I had hoped to get some questions to the minister and officials with respect to that situation.

That said, regarding international students, I also have to put this on the record: Minister, when you made the announcement on the cap—this is in the backdrop of the media and others saying newcomers are to blame for the housing crisis—I think it did a disservice to international students in the way this announcement was cast in that context. I don't think that is the right message. I hope that is not your intention, but that is how it is perceived: that somehow newcomers—in this instance, international students—are to blame for the housing crisis.

I can talk all day long about where the housing crisis came from, which is, of course, 30 years of successive Liberal and Conservative governments relying on the private sector to deliver the housing Canadians need and can afford. That's a conversation for another day.

I want to touch on international students, in particular unintended consequences.

In the announcement that came about with the cap—which I do not agree with—was the notion that applicants need to demonstrate financial resources of $20,000 per year. That's a shift. There are unintended consequences, because there are students who come in on a scholarship, for example. The way this is calculated or dealt with means they may not be able to meet this new requirement now. Many of those who come on a scholarship obviously may well have some financial constraints. Those scholarships enable them to come and enhance their education and have those opportunities.

In fact, my colleague Randall Garrison, the member for Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, wrote to the minister about Pearson College with respect to scholarships for students. He has not received a response yet from the minister on this letter. That was dated January 17, 2024. It asked whether or not IRCC officials would consider the total value of the scholarship, room and board provided by Pearson College to the students as a consideration towards that $25,000 requirement.

 

Marc Miller Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC
Liberal

I can answer this specific question and speak a little more generally, MP Kwan.

We're willing to look at it. I have not personally seen that letter. Perhaps send it to my P9 afterward and I can talk to officials about it.

The increase in the number was, in the grand scheme of things, rather modest. We were at half of what our competitors are requesting students provide as part of their solvency. We have clearly seen students who do not have the means to support themselves. This is a choice. I think it's a very important choice, but it leaves students less exploited, given that they perhaps have more financial capacity to live and hopefully thrive in Canada.

I acknowledge your point on Sudan and Gaza. I think that if I were appearing today on Gaza, I would have no good news for you. I don't. I hope to have better news when we appear in three weeks, but there are no guarantees on that. I guess that's an aside, because we're not dealing with that today, but it's not an attempt to dodge anything. I think these are very important issues generally, and we should have the opportunity to deal with them. My presence, obviously, is required at times.

I do not mean to stigmatize international students. In fact, if you look at it in economic terms, a large cohort of bright, young and motivated people with financial capacity are in Canada, where our demographic curve was trending in the wrong direction. The Bank of Canada has highlighted our singular ability to make that curve a little younger in the workforce, and this is notionally a cohort of trained and potentially integrated people whom we could leverage because of their talent and work ethic.

It's notionally a good idea, but because of real challenges in the volumes that have been spiking, it was very important for Canada to pump the brakes.

 

 

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

I'll just quickly say, on the question around Gaza, that I appreciate that maybe the minister is hopefully going to come back with better news, but there are a lot of questions that need to be answered. Each passing minute, people's lives are in jeopardy. I just want to say that. They may not have the luxury of three weeks. I just need to put that on the record.

On the issue around international students, it was a disappointment to me that the former minister of immigration left and shortly after that he left became the minister of housing. It was almost as though he immediately turned his back on the immigration file and started to point fingers. It is not helpful and it is not useful, and I am very disappointed with respect to that.

Setting that aside for a minute, I will definitely get this letter to the minister—

 

 

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

Your time is up, Madam. Please ask the last question.

 

 

Marc Miller Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC
Liberal

Quite frankly, Sean Fraser is very passionate about his former file. I don't blame him for that. He had a lot of very important views that he communicated to me. He helped convince me to put in place these measures and to have a more robust system that we can be a little more proud of. He's one of my closest colleagues in cabinet, and we have some very important discussions on making sure we are creating and bolstering a system that we can all be proud of.

I take note of your comments, but when it comes Sean's character, I think his passion for this file is one that I share.

 

 

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

He may be passionate, but he's not helpful when he turns around and blames newcomers.

 

 

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

Thank you very much, Minister. Thank you, Madam Kwan.

We will now go to Mr. Berthold for five minutes. Please go ahead.

 

6 p.m.

 

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

We were talking about unintended consequences from the cap and also the requirement for $20,000 in people's personal accounts.

When the minister made this decision and announced this cap, did the department undertake any evaluation of what those unintended consequences might be?

 

 

Marc Miller Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC
Liberal

It's an excellent question. It was one of my largest preoccupations.

First of all, doubling it was a no-brainer. We were just wildly under what internationally comparable countries had in place.

At the same time, when the recommendation came to me, I asked the department what we were going to do to make sure people from west Africa, for example, would not be unduly prejudiced by this type of decision. We are looking at a number of solutions to make sure people like these were not impacted by that decision.

It is no surprise that the diversity of the countries in question is rather limited. The main source country is one that, when you compare it to other countries in terms of the global middle class, does have an availability to mobilize money more easily than do other countries in which there are equally excellent students.

 

 

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I wonder if the minister can table to this committee the documentation that officials provided to him with respect to the unintended consequences of this policy, not just on the $20,000 issue but also on the other components within this announcement.

 

 

Marc Miller Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC
Liberal

As the minister, I won't undertake to do it personally, but if the committee decides to so vote, we can look at that.

 

 

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

All right. In that case, I will move a motion to ask the minister to table documents in relation to unintended consequences with relation to the international student announcement.

 

 

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

Your motion is in order.

We can stop the watch at two and a half minutes and we will start the debate on that motion.

 

 

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

I just want to get the documents.

 

 

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

Mr. Redekopp, go ahead.

 

 

Brad Redekopp Saskatoon West, SK
Conservative

Let's vote.

 

 

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

If there's no discussion, we'll go to a vote.

Mr. Clerk, could you call the vote, please?

 

 

Salma Zahid Scarborough Centre, ON
Liberal

Can you please clarify what we are voting on?

 

 

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

There is a motion on the floor by Madam Kwan. She is asking for certain documents to be tabled by the minister, and the minister has said that if it is the will of the committee....

Madam Kwan, do you want to read the motion once more?

 

 

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

I don't have it in writing. I just said the words, but it is along these lines: I'm asking for the minister to table with the committee documents from his department with regard to unintended consequences in relation to the international student announcement.

 

 

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

Thank you.

Mr. Clerk, please call the vote.

(Motion agreed to: 11 yeas; 0 nays [See Minutes of Proceedings])

Madam Kwan, you have 35 seconds. Please go ahead.

 

 

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

Thank you very much. I appreciate that and I'll look forward to those documents.

The reason I asked for that information is that I wanted to see what work is going to be undertaken and needs to be undertaken to address this issue. I think those unintended consequences are serious.

With respect to that, there's another piece that is another unintended consequence. It is on the issue of students who are fleeing persecution, such as those from Afghanistan and other places. I know that there is a commitment from the government to facilitate education opportunities to them. This cap would mean that they would also be impacted.

Is that something the minister would take into consideration to address, so that those students would not be negatively impacted?

 

 

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

Give a brief answer, because the time is up.

 

 

Marc Miller Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC
Liberal

Yes, that's absolutely one of the examples.

 

 

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

Thank you very much.

With that, I'm going to suspend the meeting.

It is my understanding that the minister is here until 6:15. Is that correct, Minister, or can you stay a bit longer?

 

 

Marc Miller Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC
Liberal

I'm okay.

 

 

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

With that, then I will suspend the meeting and we will come back.

Once we come back, I want you to think about this: The honourable member from the Green Party had asked for unanimous consent to have one question of two minutes. Is there unanimous consent?

Go ahead, Madam Kwan.

 

 

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

I just have a point of clarification.

The minister was meant to be here for 90 minutes. We were interrupted and started at least half an hour late because of votes. We're now interrupted again because of votes. I would have anticipated that with the 90-minute rotation, I would have had another opportunity with another rotation with the minister.

 

 

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

Once the meeting is suspended, we can talk about it and figure it out if you want.

 

 

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

Yes, I would like to have another rotation, because I have more questions for the minister.

 

 

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

Now my question to the membership is this: As soon as we come back, is there unanimous consent for the honourable member from the Green Party to have two minutes?

 

 

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

No, I'm sorry. We can't jump to having the Greens take a round without actually sorting out committee members getting their full round.

 

 

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

Sure. Okay.

I'm going to suspend the meeting. We'll come back.

 

6:30 p.m.

 

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

On the question around student housing, I absolutely think that it is essential for institutions and provinces do their part and I think that the federal government should show leadership and perhaps initiate a program wherein the federal government contributes a third of the funding, institutions provide a third of the funding, and the provinces and territories provide a third of the funding towards the creation of student housing, both for international students and domestic students. That way you can have a robust plan to address the housing needs of the students.

I'm going to park that for a minute and quickly get into the students who were subject to fraud. We have a situation in which students have now been cleared and found to be genuine by the task force, but they have not gotten their passports back yet. I don't know what the holdup is, and I wonder if the minister can comment on that.

Second, there are students who are still waiting to be evaluated by the task force, and the task force work can't proceed because they might be waiting for a date for the IRB to assess the question on their permit on whether or not it was genuine or whether or not there was misrepresentation. They are consequently in a situation in which people are just chasing their tails and they can't get to the task force.

On that question, will the minister agree that instead of making people go through that process with the IRB, the task force evaluation can move forward first so that they can be found to be either a genuine student or not a genuine student?

 

 

Marc Miller Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC
Liberal

You've asked me a lot of questions in two and a half minutes. You'd make a great reporter. You're already a great MP. There were a lot of shotgun questions.

I want to give you a proper and complete update on that task force. We can get to the bottom of the passport issue, but I have an update for you that I can provide, either as a sidebar or more officially through channels.

I take your point on the passport issues, and we will follow up on that. I don't have an update for you on that.

 

 

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

What about the whole idea of doing the task force work first, instead of making the student go through the IRB assessment on misrepresentation? As long as the task force has not finished its work and it is not known whether they are genuine or not, making them go through the other process means they're just going to spin their tail, because that misrepresentation piece is always going to be on their file.

 

 

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

The time is up.

 

 

Marc Miller Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC
Liberal

MP Kwan, I won't do justice to your question by answering it really quickly, but we can follow up on that.

 

 

The Chair Sukh Dhaliwal
Liberal

Thank you very much, Minister, for staying late with us today to accommodate the honourable members. Thank you for being accessible to this committee. Hopefully you will stay accessible.

Thank you to you and your deputy ministers and assistant deputy ministers.

The meeting is adjourned.

 

https://openparliament.ca/committees/immigration/44-1/93/jenny-kwan-1/

Latest posts

CIMM#92: Closed Work Permits, Temporary Foreign Workers and Committee Business

I want to thank the special rapporteur for joining us today at committee. I also very much appreciate your coming to Canada and looking into this issue.

As many of the witnesses have said to us, the issue around the immigration system as it's set up, with the closed work permit approach, is that it actually sets these workers up for exploitation. From that perspective.... It's not to say, as the Conservatives would suggest, that you were alleging that all employers abuse workers. I don't believe you said that at any point in time; rather, I think the issue is about the immigration system that Canada has.

Instead of having this closed work permit situation, what would you say is the remedy to address the exploitation that many of the migrant workers you spoke with directly experienced?

 

Special Rapporteur on Contemporary Forms of Slavery, United Nations, As an Individual
Tomoya Obokata

My recommendation is, certainly, to modify the closed nature of the program. If the workers are able to choose their employers at their own will, that reduces the instances of abuse and exploitation.

More importantly, whether it's closed or not, employers have to comply with the relevant legal obligations. I accept that a large number of employers already do. It's those others who do not who require further attention from the provincial and federal governments to see whether they can take appropriate law enforcement actions against those who breach labour standards legislation.

 

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC
NDP

With respect to exploitation, one of the issues that migrant workers are faced with is that they don't have full status here in Canada; they have only temporary status. One issue that has been identified is the closed work permit. The other issue is in terms of having rights. Being able to have their rights protected also means that they have to have status here in Canada.

How would you suggest the policy side of things should be amended to ensure that these migrant workers have their rights protected?

CIMM#91: Government's Response to the Final Report of the Special Committee on Afghanistan and Committee Business

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I thank the committee members for supporting the last motion.

I have another motion that I'd like to move at this point. Notice has been given for it. It reads as follows:

That, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the committee invite the Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship and the Minister of Housing, Infrastructure and Communities and relevant officials together for two hours, or invite the Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship with relevant officials for two hours, and the Minister of Housing, Infrastructure and Communities to appear separately with relevant officials for one hour to update the committee on:

(a) the work of the task force addressing the exploitation scheme targeting international students as many students are still reporting that they are in limbo and have not heard back from officials about their status;

(b) the measures taken by IRCC and institutions to help prevent and protect international students from fraud schemes;

(c) the justification to increase the financial requirements for international students by more than 100% to $20,635;

(d) the justification for putting a cap on international study permits; and

(e) the plans to address the housing crisis for international students and efforts made to collaborate with provinces, territories and post-secondary institutions.

I think the motion is self-explanatory on all elements, and I think we would benefit from having the two ministers appear before our committee. We've also deliberated this issue at length at another meeting, so in the interest of time, I won't revisit all of those points.

I hope committee members will support this motion.

 

CIMM#90: Briefing on Migrant Trafficking and Smuggling

Jenny Kwan Vancouver East, BC

I think it would be useful to have that. Seeing as the specific study of the motion is to talk about Mexico, I think it would be useful to have that information. We know that migrant workers, temporary foreign workers with a closed work permit, are subject to abuse, and this is an ongoing issue that I know the minister is aware of and the committee is as well.

From that perspective, there have been ongoing reports. In a recent report in Ontario, I think some 67 migrant workers were subject to abuse in that regard, but it's not the only example. There are many. I won't bother citing all of them. Many people have said over and over again that the reality is that, when people are subject to a closed work permit environment, they are actually at a severe disadvantage and are subject to exploitation.

I know that there's a system whereby the people themselves can report and go through the ministry to apply for an open work permit as vulnerable workers. Will the minister consider providing open work permits to people from the beginning—so that they're not having to face exploitation and then seek recourse—to be more proactive and pre-emptive in the face of this ongoing situation?

Marc Miller Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC

It's something that we're definitely looking into. Obviously, we want to deal with the exploitation as it occurs, regardless of the conditions that people are in. It is clear that, when you have a closed work permit, it does make you more vulnerable. It makes you more hesitant to report abuse and take action, and it gives you less of an ability to move from one place to another.

Looking at the next policy options we have in our tool kit is something that both I and Minister Boissonnault are looking at intensely. I think it's something that we will be working to fix in the coming months.

Are you ready to take action?

Constituent Resources
Mobile Offices
Contact Jenny

Sign up for updates